Opps on Paint Can

[choppedtop]

I am in the process of painting my 46 chopped couple. Since I don't like messing with pouring paint out of a gallon can, I got smart, I thought. I went to my local hardware store and bought one of the pour spouts that snap onto a gallon can. Poured a bit less than a quart, added activator and reducer and started to shoot the trunk door. Fish eyes every where.
First I thought water in hoses, nah, that would not fish eye. Oil, nope have filter at gun and compressor. Okay, it has to be the paint. Maybe. I was telling my wife about my problem and she said, you know that spout is made from silicone, would that make a difference. Viola!
So now I had to order another gallon from California, pay the Hasmat fee, since I want it by Saturday it has to go air. Don't every use one of those nice silicone pour lids, Grasshopper.
Why from California? It is Hot Rod Flatz paint and nobody locally mixes it. You have to use a flat clear over base coat for the effect. Hot Rod Flatz doe not require clear, and it is UV protected.

 

[Island Girl]

I am in the process of painting my 46 chopped couple. Since I don't like messing with pouring paint out of a gallon can, I got smart, I thought. I went to my local hardware store and bought one of the pour spouts that snap onto a gallon can. Poured a bit less than a quart, added activator and reducer and started to shoot the trunk door. Fish eyes every where.
First I thought water in hoses, nah, that would not fish eye. Oil, nope have filter at gun and compressor. Okay, it has to be the paint. Maybe. I was telling my wife about my problem and she said, you know that spout is made from silicone, would that make a difference. Viola!
So now I had to order another gallon from California, pay the Hasmat fee, since I want it by Saturday it has to go air. Don't every use one of those nice silicone pour lids, Grasshopper.
Why from California? It is Hot Rod Flatz paint and nobody locally mixes it. You have to use a flat clear over base coat for the effect. Hot Rod Flatz doe not require clear, and it is UV protected.

Did you try shooting some that had not been poured via the silicone spout . . . .

I can't see the chemistry that would cause the fisheyes, especially if the spout had been wiped down with reducer first.

 

[409T]

From TCP Global? They have good stuff. When I had my shop in San Diego their main office/showroom/warehouse was about 100 yards away. We used to buy PPG DCU 2021 clear from them for all the conference tables that we made. I would very much like to know how well the Hot Rod Flatz works for you.

 

[choppedtop]

Island Girl, no I failed to wipe the pour spout before pouring the paint. The very first time I used it, it had not been on the can but for a minute or less. I used my detail gun to paint the inside door edges and the jams. It worked fine. The next day (today) I poured from the spout after it had set all night on the paint can. The first shot out of the gun fish eyed. I did try some of the paint without the spout, and it was already contaminated.
409T, I have used HRF before on the car in my avator, and it went on easy without an issue. I tried the red HRF also today to eliminate hoses, oil, activator and it work fine. I did call TCP about the problem and they tried to assist with trouble shooting. After I discovered the silicone spout, I called them back, and they said that was a no-no. Live and learn. $$$ I will probably use HRF again with no second thoughts.

 

[409T]

I don't think I have ever tried to paint over anything that had silicone on it but have always heard that doing so will cause fisheye. Smoothie additive helps flow-out in paint and lacquer and prevents fisheye and I believe it is just about pure silicone. There must be something I am missing in all this, because it doesn't make a whole lot of sense.

 

[choppedtop]

When I took the pour spout off the can and looked at the underside of it, it of course paint on it, and it was fish eyed also. If anyone needs a fishy eyed paint job in midnight blue flatz, I have about 3 quarts that I can make a reeeeeally good deal on.

 

[fletcherson]

That is odd. Silicone additive is intended to reduce fish eye. When we painted with high solids, acrylic enamel, single stage urethane, etc, it was sold as such. I didn’t like to use it because it really increased the flow, too much for my application style, and would increase the chances of sags and runs, grrrr! Fish eye can be caused by contaminant on the surface such as oil, wax, moisture, or incompatible primer, etc. What did you prep the surface with? I always used either prepsol or lacquer thinner, or the same reducer that the base coat required. We always used two clean, new, rags. One with prepsol and one to wipe dry. I never allowed it to just evaporate to dry. Never use mineral spirits! It is oil based and can cause problems such as fish eye and lifting due to improper adhesion. Surface temperature can also cause fish eye. If your prep rags have fabric softener on them, or are died, that can also do it. New white rags are preferred. Oil in your air hose can also do it. I have a hose that is only used to paint with. I also have a specific filter/regulator for painting only and also use in line filters on the gun. I understand the frustration. It is very disheartening to put the effort and cash into a paint job and have chemical problems. I hope you find the culprit and obtain your desired result. Good luck!

 

[choppedtop]

Waiting on the new paint now, so had to do another test. First I painted a panel with known good paint. Same brand, different color. Everything went fine. Next I used the same pour spout on a clean gallon can with the same paint as the previous test, and let it set several hours. Painted another panel. Guess what? Fish eyes. The tech at TCP Global also told me that if the spout had been thoroughly cleaned, he would not gambled on using it.

 

[choppedtop]

From what I can understand from fish eye reducer, it contains silicone surfactant, which lets paint have a better chance to adhere to surfaces that have been contaminated by oils, silicones, and other contaminates. Not that I have ever been accused of absorbing all that I read, but here is what I have read.
"Most fish eye additives are a form of a silicone surfactant that when properly dosed and added to a coating will relax the surface tension of the coating, allowing the wet coat to level while is flashing off and drying." I think the keyword being "surfactant"

 

[fletcherson]

From what I can understand from fish eye reducer, it contains silicone surfactant, which lets paint have a better chance to adhere to surfaces that have been contaminated by oils, silicones, and other contaminates. Not that I have ever been accused of absorbing all that I read, but here is what I have read.
"Most fish eye additives are a form of a silicone surfactant that when properly dosed and added to a coating will relax the surface tension of the coating, allowing the wet coat to level while is flashing off and drying." I think the keyword being "surfactant"

Translation: allows the paint to flow. It can cause runs and long ugly sags if the painter is not very cautious. Maybe with fast reducer and light coats it would be better. The problem is that there is usually a coat on the surface when you notice the fish eye, then adding it to the paint and applying it creates a heavy wet condition and on vertical surfaces can cause problems. Just my opinion from the experience I had with it. I do not like to use it. That is crazy that the entire can was contaminated just by contact with the pour visor. I have used them but the ones I had were plastic, like bondo spreader material, not silicone. I’m surprised that there isn’t a resolve such as additive to counter the effect.

 

[choppedtop]

Fletcherson, the warning on the pour spout said "do not use with oil base paints". I don't think urethane falls in that category, but it does for me now. My high dollar 2nd day air paint shipment will end up being 6 days. Due to the bad weather on the opposite coast. lol. Anyway, looks like Wednesday will actually be the best day now, with lower temps. As you know, Hot Rod Flatz has to be perfect as there is not sanding out bad spots and buffing them out. I have sanded and simply re-shot that area with excellent result. I will let you know how round 5 or 6 turns out. Oh, if you hear from me by Thursday, I cut my throat.
PS, I think if I had washed the spout with lacquer thinner a couple of times and washed with Dawn a few times all would have been fine. Not going to test it out with the new gallon.

 

[AusBucket]

G'Day Chopped,
Any paint I need to get out of a tin these days I use a Stainless Steel soup ladle, no more paint wasted than most other methods.
Regards,

 

[fletcherson]

Fletcherson, the warning on the pour spout said "do not use with oil base paints". I don't think urethane falls in that category, but it does for me now. My high dollar 2nd day air paint shipment will end up being 6 days. Due to the bad weather on the opposite coast. lol. Anyway, looks like Wednesday will actually be the best day now, with lower temps. As you know, Hot Rod Flatz has to be perfect as there is not sanding out bad spots and buffing them out. I have sanded and simply re-shot that area with excellent result. I will let you know how round 5 or 6 turns out. Oh, if you hear from me by Thursday, I cut my throat.
PS, I think if I had washed the spout with lacquer thinner a couple of times and washed with Dawn a few times all would have been fine. Not going to test it out with the new gallon.

The paint pour spouts are probably marketed for home owner type markets for use with latex wall paint, my guess. Sucks to find out the hard way. Hope this round works out better for you!

 

[choppedtop]

You are correct Fletch. I guess that is why the auto paint stores don't carry them. Got my fingers crossed, my rabbits foot handy, and horse shoes turned up.

 

[choppedtop]

Round 2 went pretty well on the paint this afternoon. Went on pretty smooth, with only a couple of places that I will re-shoot tomorrow pm. I am amazed at how the mid night blue covered the light grey primer so fast. Now, this is a 46 coupe, and it took just a tad over 2 quarts of paint, and that is 3 coats. TCP Global paint is my paint from now on. Maybe..

 

[fletcherson]

Round 2 went pretty well on the paint this afternoon. Went on pretty smooth, with only a couple of places that I will re-shoot tomorrow pm. I am amazed at how the mid night blue covered the light grey primer so fast. Now, this is a 46 coupe, and it took just a tad over 2 quarts of paint, and that is 3 coats. TCP Global paint is my paint from now on. Maybe..

Great news.