Busted bolt

[RPM]

Try to find a friend or another Rodder who MIGHT help you out that has a little more experience than you. There has to be someone close by.Never hurts to ask and you never know who might become a lifelong friend. I've always said a good friend is better than money, depending on his/her knowledge of what you need, and can reciprocate back with.

Good advice there. It would help if you posted you city and state, so someone close enough to help would know. There is probably more than one La Quinta out there some where.

A left handed drill bit would be a good place to start. If that bolt was just sheared off and not galled or rusted it will probably come right out. What ever you do go very slow and easy, and don't break the drill bit off in it..

www.mcmaster.com will have a left handed drill bit.

 

[choppedtop]

Good advise RPM. I wish everyone would post their location. I checked the LaQuinta here to no avail.
Lee

 

[T-Test]

Also remember--lefty loosey--righty tighty.

 

[fletcherson]

Also remember--lefty loosey--righty tighty.

As to the choice of motors: You will likely encounter similar issues in like situations with any motor as the motors are basically the same as far as purpose and basic design (air pumps). Just dig a little for either good info or a friend with experience. Its a project, not a model...Things like that happen!. You will get through it and be able to help someone else down the road! If nothing else, it makes a good case to justify buying new tools!

 

[Swampdog]

More Tools are Cool!

 

[2xcrash]

Didn't have the state in my location... La Quinta is in So Cal. 20 min east of Palm Springs

 

[Screaming Metal]

Yea, I know of alot of folks that tried to use the starter to loosen the harmonic balancer bolt....You can do it on the old Pontiac motors....but I normally put my Big, Ugly 3/4" Electric Impact on it and they came off easily.
Yes, if its not Jammed out, threads screwed up, or otherwise fubared into place, should come out easily. Hell, if you have a little dremel tool with a small cutoff wheel, if you make a groove enough to put a big, not long, screwdriver to the broken bolt, might come out that way.

1. I'd try the screwdrive approach.
2. Centerpunch the exact center of the bolt. Carefully use a centerdrill, slowly, while applying a firm pressure, drill about 1/4" into the bolt. Use your lefthanded drill, see if she starts to move....If its gonna come out, you'll see it turn a little....If so, apply some penetrant, and try again.
3. If that doesn't have the results, continue to drill carefully, cause it that drill catches, it will probably break, so you gotta go sloooow. Get down a little bit, then apply a EZ Out. Carefully, apply pressure....
4. Still, if no joy, apply a little heat from a propane torch all around the snout, (If you have the Harmonic Balancer Off!)and slowly apply pressure. IF still no joy....
5. Put a bolt into the drilled hole, and mig it in....

IF, If none of that happens to go well for you, the only out is the good old torch method. Now, this might sound extreme, but a good experienced person with the torch WILL get that bolt out without harming the crank. I've had to do litterally 20 or 30 cranks like that....
Good Luck....

As Ron said, the drills can be had thru McMaster, Grainger, Any good machineshop service supplier, ie, Goodsons, etc....

 

[fletcherson]

Yea, I know of alot of folks that tried to use the starter to loosen the harmonic balancer bolt....You can do it on the old Pontiac motors....but I normally put my Big, Ugly 3/4" Electric Impact on it and they came off easily.
Yes, if its not Jammed out, threads screwed up, or otherwise fubared into place, should come out easily. Hell, if you have a little dremel tool with a small cutoff wheel, if you make a groove enough to put a big, not long, screwdriver to the broken bolt, might come out that way.

1. I'd try the screwdrive approach.
2. Centerpunch the exact center of the bolt. Carefully use a centerdrill, slowly, while applying a firm pressure, drill about 1/4" into the bolt. Use your lefthanded drill, see if she starts to move....If its gonna come out, you'll see it turn a little....If so, apply some penetrant, and try again.
3. If that doesn't have the results, continue to drill carefully, cause it that drill catches, it will probably break, so you gotta go sloooow. Get down a little bit, then apply a EZ Out. Carefully, apply pressure....
4. Still, if no joy, apply a little heat from a propane torch all around the snout, (If you have the Harmonic Balancer Off!)and slowly apply pressure. IF still no joy....
5. Put a bolt into the drilled hole, and mig it in....

IF, If none of that happens to go well for you, the only out is the good old torch method. Now, this might sound extreme, but a good experienced person with the torch WILL get that bolt out without harming the crank. I've had to do litterally 20 or 30 cranks like that....
Good Luck....

I didn't think of torching the bolt out of the crank, I have done it on heads, manifolds, blocks, etc...mostly cast iron parts. I will add that idea to my tool box. Hopefully, I won't ever have to use it! lol

 

[Bucketman]

No driveshaft on this yet. still have the trans hooked up to the motor.
Desert dry with temp swings, 120-80 sumer, 80-50 now.
Anybody know what I'm looking at for a rebuild assuming that the heads are good. The motor was rebuilt then driven less than 20k miles.
I'm not looking to hop it up just get it on the road...

These guys on this site know a lot more than me, all great ideas for removing your incapacitated harmonic balancer bolt. Just to get my two cents worth in, with 20K on the motor it probably still has a pretty snug fit on rings they actually push up against the cylinder wall. When metal touches metal it takes very little moisture or humidity to rust two pieces together. Marvel mystery oil is not a rust remover, only a preventer. Take a big can of WD40 and squirt a lot into each cylinder let it sit over night and spray more in the next day. Make sure your transmission is in neutral or remove it. (I'm assuming it was in neutral when you tried to turn it over the first time) Then try the screw driver in the flywheel trick, or if you got the harmonic balancer bolt fixed use it. Your motor should be fine after you dissolve the rust between your rings and the cylinder wall. Cost, $3.30 for a can of WD40. (transmission being in neutral, priceless.) Good luck!

 

[Screaming Metal]

Marvel mystery oil is not a rust remover, only a preventer.
-Correct- PBBlaster is good, so is Liquid Wrench....

Here is the last thing I would try before putting heat on it....I know it sounds crazy, I have actually used this in really gnarly, rusted in bolts....
If the motor is out of the car and not up on the motor stand, stand the motor on its back side. You'll beed a roll of blue shop towels or reg. paper towels.
Soak up any excess fluid....give it a couple of shots of air. Get a small cup brush in your 90 degree die grinder and clean it where you can see the parting line on the threads and crank. Just get the crap off, oil, and grease....
Get your favorite soda pop with carbinated water, either a bottle ot a can, put your finger over the opening, shake it a little, and squit it and/or pour it onto the recess where the bolt is. If its flush, I'll wrap a little piece of shiney cardboard around the snout and put a rubberband around it to keep the fluid over the broken bolt.
Let it sit for a few hours, get a rag or paper towel, then dob up the standing pop over the bolt. Do this several times, and if you start early in the morning, do it once again before you go to bed.

That carbonated water, if the parting line is visable will find that parting line, fizz, releasing gas, and wick down thru the threads. When you think you've soaked it enough, soak it a little more, giving it a shot of air BEFORE filling with fizzing soda again....

This usually does work, I use it before the torch method....

If your super squimish about torching the bolt out, and I warn you, you gotta know that your doing. If you've blown the broken bolts outta heads and blocks before with a torch, you know what I'm talking about. Its the same thing. That parting line (the threads) won't transfer the heat, if done correctly. You will get the bolt out before damaging the crank. I use this only as a last resort. I usually use a 00 tip, sometimes a 0 for larger ones, small bolts a 000. And I usually lose the tip to the slag, but thats the sacrafic....The small tip allows alot of control over the heat being applied to the area. Sometimes, you'll need to put a washer over the broken bolt to help control the heat....heating the bolt thru the hole on the washer....

But, if your squimish about the torch, you have a thru hole thry that broken bolt, get some small grinding stones, taking your time, start on one side, then grind thru the edge of the bolt till you just pickup the threads....this will relief the pressure on the OD and allow it to collaspe slightly and turn....

 

[fletcherson]

Marvel mystery oil is not a rust remover, only a preventer.
-Correct- PBBlaster is good, so is Liquid Wrench....

Here is the last thing I would try before putting heat on it....I know it sounds crazy, I have actually used this in really gnarly, rusted in bolts....
If the motor is out of the car and not up on the motor stand, stand the motor on its back side. You'll beed a roll of blue shop towels or reg. paper towels.
Soak up any excess fluid....give it a couple of shots of air. Get a small cup brush in your 90 degree die grinder and clean it where you can see the parting line on the threads and crank. Just get the crap off, oil, and grease....
Get your favorite soda pop with carbinated water, either a bottle ot a can, put your finger over the opening, shake it a little, and squit it and/or pour it onto the recess where the bolt is. If its flush, I'll wrap a little piece of shiney cardboard around the snout and put a rubberband around it to keep the fluid over the broken bolt.
Let it sit for a few hours, get a rag or paper towel, then dob up the standing pop over the bolt. Do this several times, and if you start early in the morning, do it once again before you go to bed.

That carbonated water, if the parting line is visable will find that parting line, fizz, releasing gas, and wick down thru the threads. When you think you've soaked it enough, soak it a little more, giving it a shot of air BEFORE filling with fizzing soda again....

This usually does work, I use it before the torch method....

If your super squimish about torching the bolt out, and I warn you, you gotta know that your doing. If you've blown the broken bolts outta heads and blocks before with a torch, you know what I'm talking about. Its the same thing. That parting line (the threads) won't transfer the heat, if done correctly. You will get the bolt out before damaging the crank. I use this only as a last resort. I usually use a 00 tip, sometimes a 0 for larger ones, small bolts a 000. And I usually lose the tip to the slag, but thats the sacrafic....The small tip allows alot of control over the heat being applied to the area. Sometimes, you'll need to put a washer over the broken bolt to help control the heat....heating the bolt thru the hole on the washer....

But, if your squimish about the torch, you have a thru hole thry that broken bolt, get some small grinding stones, taking your time, start on one side, then grind thru the edge of the bolt till you just pickup the threads....this will relief the pressure on the OD and allow it to collaspe slightly and turn....

I just want to add that if you get to this stage, keep in mind that this is a time consuming chore, rushing it usually doesn't yield positive results.

 

[Mike]

If you're looking to speed up the process, use oil of wintergreen. It will penetrate faster than anything else. I know, you're laughing about now, but that is only because you've never used it. You can get it from a drugstore or a health-food store. And once you've tried it, you'll toss out all the cans of WD-40, PB Blaster, and Liquid Wrench.

 

[fletcherson]

If you're looking to speed up the process, use oil of wintergreen. It will penetrate faster than anything else. I know, you're laughing about now, but that is only because you've never used it. You can get it from a drugstore or a health-food store. And once you've tried it, you'll toss out all the cans of WD-40, PB Blaster, and Liquid Wrench.

I bet it smells a lot better! I will have to remember to try it!

 

[Swampdog]

The best penetrant for loosing bolts, nuts and studs that I have found is the Dye penetrant from the Non Destructive test application kits. It is red in color and is made to weep into the smallest cracks and imperfections. It is messy though. It is loosing favor in the Aviation Industry to florescent penetrant (Zyglow) and Eddy Current Inspection. But is the best penetrating oil I know of.

 

[Swampdog]

- the w on zyglo

 

[fletcherson]

The best penetrant for loosing bolts, nuts and studs that I have found is the Dye penetrant from the Non Destructive test application kits. It is red in color and is made to weep into the smallest cracks and imperfections. It is messy though. It is loosing favor in the Aviation Industry to florescent penetrant (Zyglow) and Eddy Current Inspection. But is the best penetrating oil I know of.

Where can it be purchased? Nice to get everyone's tips...I give the oils, etc...every chance, but find that heat is usually a sure bet. Not always good for the surrounding parts though. I don't know how I ever worked on cars without a torch back in the day.

 

[Swampdog]

Spot check is the name brand. Granges sell it but I have seen at most welding supply houses. You don't need the whole kit, Cleaner, penetrant and developer. You only need the penetrant. Like a 12 oz spray can. The developer is a white spray that dries chalky finish. The developer makes a great way to find oil leaks. We clean up the component, spray it with developer and run it up and look for the seep.

 

[fletcherson]

Spot check is the name brand. Granges sell it but I have seen at most welding supply houses. You don't need the whole kit, Cleaner, penetrant and developer. You only need the penetrant. Like a 12 oz spray can. The developer is a white spray that dries chalky finish. The developer makes a great way to find oil leaks. We clean up the component, spray it with developer and run it up and look for the seep.

Thanks! I usually have tunnel vision when I go to get gas or wire or the like and don't look around much.

 

[Screaming Metal]

Grainger sells them, also Fastenal, they can have it for you in a couple of days....if they don't already have them in stock.... I use a ton of the stuff weekly....be sure to gte some rubber gloves, the stuff can stain your hands....
Me, I just use barrier cream....

 

[RPM]

I just have to wonder after all of the ways to get a bolt out. Did we even get that bolt out, or did we ruin a crank?