Engine First Start - Tranny?

[dwleo]

Hi,
My '23 T Bucket project car is almost completed and I am ready to start it and idle it for 20 minutes to properly seat the cam and stuff.
My automatic tranny is still waiting for the speedo sender so there is no fluid in the tranny except for the torque converter.

My question is this:
Can I idle the engine for 20 minutes without any fluid in the tranny?
Thank you for all and any help.

 

[Bagman]

What i did on mine is plumbed the cooler lines, installed driveshaft and went to auto parts store and bought a $9 speedo cable and plugged it in and left it coiled up. I added 5 qts of tranny fluid and fired it up. I had no issues.

 

[dwleo]

What i did on mine is plumbed the cooler lines, installed driveshaft and went to auto parts store and bought a $9 speedo cable and plugged it in and left it coiled up. I added 5 qts of tranny fluid and fired it up. I had no issues.

Yeah, but I don't have the unit to screw the cable into.

 

[railroad]

NO Several things wrong here. Idling with a roller cam, Ok, but not the best in my opinion. Definitely not with a flat tappet cam. You will be better served to have a break in oil like Brad Penn or another specific break in oil, all petro, non synthetic. No idling with the flat tappet cam. 1500 to 2000 rpm varying for 20 minutes.
On the trans, you will be starving the pump (s) in about 1 minute of run time. The pump not only provides pressure to operate it force lubes and cools all the parts.
Not to bash you, but you really need to get an experienced person on site, before you cost yourself some money.
You can plug the speedo hole and fill the trans. If you have the engine out and you have a bell housing, I recommend dealing with one new item at a time. Breaking in the engine needs your full attention, not having to stop and check the trans fluid level, leaks and other issues.
If available use a carb that is being run on another similar set up. It will save a bunch of cranking time and adjusting getting it running.
If you are stuck with a new carb, fill the bowls through the vent tubes with good gasoline.
Hopefully you know the oil priming trick. Again, having someone used to doing this will likely make it painless.
Good luck, do not hesitate to ask for advise and let us know how it goes.

 

[choppedtop]

Don't think you want to idle it, if you are breaking in new cam. I break mine in at 2000/2500 rpm for around 20/30 mins. I would check with cam recommendations first.

 

[dwleo]

NO Several things wrong here. Idling with a roller cam, Ok, but not the best in my opinion. Definitely not with a flat tappet cam. You will be better served to have a break in oil like Brad Penn or another specific break in oil, all petro, non synthetic. No idling with the flat tappet cam. 1500 to 2000 rpm varying for 20 minutes.
On the trans, you will be starving the pump (s) in about 1 minute of run time. The pump not only provides pressure to operate it force lubes and cools all the parts.
Not to bash you, but you really need to get an experienced person on site, before you cost yourself some money.
You can plug the speedo hole and fill the trans. If you have the engine out and you have a bell housing, I recommend dealing with one new item at a time. Breaking in the engine needs your full attention, not having to stop and check the trans fluid level, leaks and other issues.
If available use a carb that is being run on another similar set up. It will save a bunch of cranking time and adjusting getting it running.
If you are stuck with a new carb, fill the bowls through the vent tubes with good gasoline.
Hopefully you know the oil priming trick. Again, having someone used to doing this will likely make it painless.
Good luck, do not hesitate to ask for advise and let us know how it goes.

Thank you for that.
This is my second engine I have completely rebuilt but the first with an auto tranny. The cam specs stated to run the engine for 20 mins. I have already primed the oil passages with a primer unit through the dizzy slot. I am using a break in oil and not synthetic. The engine and tranny are mounted in the vehicle hence the reference to

project car is almost completed and I am ready to start it and idle it

Thank you for your concern but this isn't my first trip by myself to school.

 

[dwleo]

Don't think you want to idle it, if you are breaking in new cam. I break mine in at 2000/2500 rpm for around 20/30 mins. I would check with cam recommendations first.

Thanks.

 

[fletcherson]

Just use a rubber replacement type freeze out plug or the like to plug the speedo hole. It's on the tail shaft with no pressure and may not leak anyways as it gets lubed via oil being slung and gravity flow. You don't want to run it dry, the pump, front bearings, seals, and converter will be damaged. If the converter is bolted to the flywheel with bolts and not studs, you could unbolt it and push it back into the transmission so it clears and start it. The break in is critical, I've rebuilt numerous engines over the years and no problem until recently. I had a comp cams hydraulic flat tapped cam desinegrate within about five minutes with break in additive, doing everything right. The new slugs that they use to make the cams are not as good as previous metals and will bite you. It's important to keep the rpm up to keep the oil flowing and spin the lifters, also fluxuating the rpm prevents lifters from not spinning. Break in not only cuts the grooves, but hardens the cam lobes. That's why it's so critical. I only shared this just in case you didn't know. Good luck!

 

[dwleo]

Just use a rubber replacement type freeze out plug or the like to plug the speedo hole. It's on the tail shaft with no pressure and may not leak anyways as it gets lubed via oil being slung and gravity flow. You don't want to run it dry, the pump, front bearings, seals, and converter will be damaged. If the converter is bolted to the flywheel with bolts and not studs, you could unbolt it and push it back into the transmission so it clears and start it. The break in is critical, I've rebuilt numerous engines over the years and no problem until recently. I had a comp cams hydraulic flat tapped cam desinegrate within about five minutes with break in additive, doing everything right. The new slugs that they use to make the cams are not as good as previous metals and will bite you. It's important to keep the rpm up to keep the oil flowing and spin the lifters, also fluxuating the rpm prevents lifters from not spinning. Break in not only cuts the grooves, but hardens the cam lobes. That's why it's so critical. I only shared this just in case you didn't know. Good luck!

Thank you for that. I'll see about the plug, its a good idea. I think I will wait until tomorrow when people are at work as I am running virtually straight headers with baffles. I'll let them have a quiet Sunday.

 

[fletcherson]

Thank you for that. I'll see about the plug, its a good idea. I think I will wait until tomorrow when people are at work as I am running virtually straight headers with baffles. I'll let them have a quiet Sunday.

Wait till about two AM... Then you will know which neibors are truly your friends, lol.

 

[fletcherson]

Another FYI for anyone who may not know, new motor oil is NOT suitable for flat tappet cams. It doesn't have Zinc and Phosphorus in it and those are critical for metal to metal contact. I use Rotela diesel oil in all of my older non performance engines in my trucks, mowers, tractors, etc and synthetic in the high rpm engines. I had several cam failures with wiped lobes before I realized this. I only learned it via a warning included with a Melling replacement cam for a 4.9 inline six. Funny thing is I never read the instructions for stuff like that, it was a fluke event that I even noticed.

 

[2old2fast]

I've read where Rotella is down to 1200 ppm zddp[ converters on the new diesel's] , if that's the case , it's borderline good , lucas "hotrod/muscle car" oil is at about 1500 ppm , that's what I decided to use w/the new cam , have about 1600 miles on it & everything is o.k....
dave

 

[Swampdog]

I use Comp Cams break-in in my flat tappet engines. It has the ZDDP needed.

 

[fletcherson]

I've read where Rotella is down to 1200 ppm zddp[ converters on the new diesel's] , if that's the case , it's borderline good , lucas "hotrod/muscle car" oil is at about 1500 ppm , that's what I decided to use w/the new cam , have about 1600 miles on it & everything is o.k....
dave

That's good to know. Man, there aren't going to be any reasonably priced general use oils for older engines. I also use additive, in all of them to prevent dry starts, hopefully that will help. I can't justify putting royal purple or the like in everything. I don't mind spending a few bucks more for my special ones. I was running mobile one synthetic, but I noticed noise that I didn't have with conventional oil. I think the viscosity is to blame. I don't like noise. I think there's a conspiracy to kill the older engines, lol.

 

[ChrisK]

I would add I always ran my engines up to 2500 to seat the rings too. Another thing I do is prime the oil filter by filling it up.