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Engine too! More problems.

oino

Supporting Member
Supporting Member
More bad news. This just gets wrose every week that goes by.
Engine problems. I think between having the engine outside with bad weather and maybe problems it may have already had. Although when I got the engine it had good oil, well it was black used with no water in it or any thing. The plugs I took out were not that bad just used. hummm.
I have black or grey/blue smoke coming out now. I checked a couple of plugs and they are black and oily. Then I checked the oil cap and it had a little milky stuff on it. Then I poped the breather out and it has condensation on it and in the valve cover where it goes in.

I'm guessing it need to be rebuilt. If so It'll have to wait till after I move. Just need it to run a little so I can get it out of the back yard.

:egypt: :-(
 
More bad news. This just gets wrose every week that goes by.
Engine problems. I think between having the engine outside with bad weather and maybe problems it may have already had. Although when I got the engine it had good oil, well it was black used with no water in it or any thing. The plugs I took out were not that bad just used. hummm.
I have black or grey/blue smoke coming out now. I checked a couple of plugs and they are black and oily. Then I checked the oil cap and it had a little milky stuff on it. Then I poped the breather out and it has condensation on it and in the valve cover where it goes in.

I'm guessing it need to be rebuilt. If so It'll have to wait till after I move. Just need it to run a little so I can get it out of the back yard.

:egypt: :-(

OK, we need to know a few things, What motor is it, what size is it, and what year its suppossed to be. This will help us make a better determination to what probably is going on.

I would say that if you've got a couple of black sooty plugs, gotta determine if its gas fouled or oil fouled. If the plugs were ok before....somethings happened or someones done something to the motor.

!st thing to do, make sure it has water in the radiator, then make sure it has oil. Pull the dipstick, wipe it off and look at it. If its just milky white on the upper dipstick and not in the oil, you are OK....The crankcase is not venting properly. If there is any water at all in the oil....STOP IMMEDIATELY! Don't run this MOTOR! If you small it and you find antifreeze, Don't run this motor!. If all esle checks, proceed....

As for the 'Milkshake' in the breather.....someones probably got the PCV and crankcase venting thing done wrong....I see it done a million times, show up to get a blown motor all sorted out, then 'OH, by the way....' they've got the motor wheres its sweating inside. Happens more than you realize. PCV valve can cause this, (rare), PCV lines hookes up wrong, (about 40% of the time), PCV not hooked up at all, (about 60% of the time).

Crank the motor up and let it get up to operating temp., that will take care of the milkshake stuff....as the motor gets hot, that white stuff will evaporate....but not if you have a internal water leak, you must eliminate these as you troubleshoot. The PCV will also throw oil past your rings and guides if you got too much base pressure.

After you get the motor up to temp, well, listen to the motor, it will talk to you and let you know if somethings amiss. If its smoking slightly, that might be part of the drying out process....as long as it don't start knocking or sqealing, or really super bad smoking....you should be good. Listen for hard metallic hitting sounds. If you experience anyof these horrible things, SHUT IT OFF IMMEDIATELY!!!!!

After the motor gets warm, check your radiator, you should have the same amount you started with....if its low and you don't see any external leaks, you probably got one inside. If water checks OK, pull the dipstick....if its not white but a nice oily black or any normal oily color other than white or green, (green is antifreeze), you'd be ok to continue.

Next, you want your PCV either in one valvecover or the other, Pontiacs vent from the Lifter valley, as do some other motors, the other side of the motor usually has a breather cap, twist or push in, on the opposite valvecover. Maybe your breather sits atop a long metal tube from underneath your intake manifold....(Early Chevys). You can do a search on this here...all of us hashed this out for a fella quite a while back...hooking up his PCV stuff.

After you check that the PCV is still working as it should, (blow thru it one way, and thru it the other, its a oneway valve and if you can shake it and hear it rattle, all should be good with it) Get your PCV setup hooked up, ckeck the plugs, if the plug smells like gas, they're gas fouled, it they're shiney black and oily...theres either guides worn out, a guide seal has gone byebye, or possible worn rings or a cracked ring....

Clean those plugs and stick them back in,fire the motor back up and see if the smoke goes away. It should if the motors ok, mechanically speaking. Your milky stuff should be a thing of the past though if your PCV system is hooked up and working.
If you notice a big puff of black smaoke when you first start the motor....its your valveguides. If it smokes steadily and gets bade when you rev it, its the rings. Now, pull off that newly hooked up PCV line and stick your thumb over it...if you feel a good bit of pressure blowing agianst your thumb, thats too much base pressure....your rings are shot.

Hope this helps you troubleshoot your ride.....
 
Yes, wow. Thank you.

Its a SB, 350 crate motor. Year 80-90
I'm guessing its all stock.
I removed all the smog crap that was on the motor. I changed the intake. Put on a Holly 650.
Changed the oil pan gasket, cleaned the engine, new valve covers, and timing chain cover.
humm. oh New plugs, wires, oil, oil filter, antifreeze, gas, and air filter.

No knocking. sounds good. No mis fires.
Radiator is full. Not lossing antifreeze.
Oil is clean, no milky on Dip stick.

I'm thinking rings and/or guides.

Going to be tough to rebuild. Haven't rebuilt an engine in over 10years. Even then I lived with mechanics that helped.

PAW rebuild kit $124.85.

Can the valve guides be replaced?
 
If it becomes apparent you have valve guide issues, your best bet is to ream the guides and install bronze liners.

I wouldn't get myself stuck on a $125 engine kit until you see what needs to be done. Keep the cart behind the horse and take things one step at a time. In spite of what the 'wish books' will have you believe, $125 just isn't going to go very far when you're freshening one up. A file-fit ring set with a moly top ring and a good oil ring sells for more than that, so caveat emptor.

Drain the oil and replace the filter. Cut the filter open and see how things look. Get your face over that drain pan and smell the oil. Does it smell like oil, or do you smell coolant? Do you smell combustion gases or fuel? (black oil can indicate gasoline contamination, by the way.) If everything seems OK, get the fresh oil and filter on it and then put some miles on it. Get the engine up to operating temperature and drive it. If you're just dealing with condensation issues, the heat will cook the water out of it.
 
2x Mike, RPM, and Screamer. All good advise. Just change oil/filter, ck. for fuel contamination, get that thing out of the back yard and drive it. Get it up to 180* - 200* and go somewhere for an hour or so. Are you moving to a place that has a drive way? Again, sorry 'bout the clothing store thing. Still haven't found out what happened to Melrose Speed.

John

P.S. Got a killer deal on a car that smoked excessively, Austin Mini. Changed the oil, like a new car. Couldn't show the previous owner the results. He would have thought I screwed him.
 
I'll get it out the the back yard next week I hope.
The new steering u-joint will be here next friday.

Would the black smoke have anything to do with the carb.? Like to much fuel going to it??

John: Not sure about a place with a driveway yet. I'm moving at the end of June.
 
per my last post about to much fuel.
I turned off the fuel pump and started it. Let it run a few min. No black smoke.
 
Change the oil/filter anyway and get a good fuel regulator. All you're doing is ironing out the kinks. Also look at the carb float needles/seats.
 
I tryed changing the setting on the carb float needles. Didn't change anything. I thought maybe they were bad so I replaced them and opened up the floots and checked them. good. replace gaskets and put carb. back on. Still gets to much gas.

Do I need a Fuel Pressure Regulator?
Do I need it if only if I use a Holley carb or all carbs?
where does it go?
 
You may need a regulator, but it is hard to say without knowing what you've measure for fuel pressure.

5-6# of pressure is more than enough. If you feel you need more volume, plumb a fuel log in, at the carb.

If the pump has excessive pressure, carburetor design won't make any real difference. So changing to another carb won't cure anything.

Plumb the regulator into the line as close to the carb as possible. Plumb it into the inlet of the fuel log, if you use one.

Be careful how you are approaching problems. Address one problem, sort it out and verify you've eliminated it before you attack another.
 
oino, if you could tell us the name of the manufacturer of the fuel pump you are using, maybe someone (Mike?) could look it up and see if is appropriate for your application. If it is cheaper to put on a mechanical pump than a regulator from Edelbrock, then I would go with the mechanical pump. Do you have a fuel pressure gauge to check the electric pump's pressure?
 
I have had 2 different Holly carbs with this problem using a stock mechanical pump on a SBC. Another Holly from Autozone fixed the problem.
 
I read on another site that you may still need a regulator with a mechanical pump.

But I did look it up. It would be cheaper to change.


and I read some where that Holley only need 2.7 psi. True?
 
Can anyone recommend a good, inexpensive Chevy mechanical fuel that has consistent fuel pressures. This would be out of the box. Doesn't need to be chrome, hi volume or extra special. Just a good ole pump.
 
2.7? Well, haha, yes, and no..... A stock motor with maybe a stock replacement Holley, yes. Should run fine, I say should....I don't deal with stock motors very much, but yes should. If you've got a bonafid performance motor or your gonna upgrade soon, go ahead and take the plunge with a performance pump and regulator.

I suspect you've got a performance pump with no regulator, and your forcing fuel past your needlevalve.The seat is on a angle and it don't take alot of mojo to push past it. Unless you know what your looking for, a seat caan be hard to diagose.

1.You might have a sinking float
2.What I think it is is probably the float level too high....
3.Seat leaking
4. Fuel pressure too high
As Mike said, 4 to 5 is really all you need. A good healthy fuel pump pumping anything past 4 to 6 PSI is gonna give you problems. Sometimes,it won't but thats very rare....if you do count yourself lucky.

Do as Mike suggested....regulate it. Most electrics run about 4 to 6 psi....which your at the Max pressure....still you need a regulator. Going from a non-primed condition, (car sitting in the garage for a month) to a primed condition, startup after a long downtime, a pump cane flash to about 8, which can force trash and fuel past your seat....

I just had a experience with a guy that should not have made this mistake. He bought a new fitting for his 5oo cube blown nitrious sucking BB with 2x4's....and the carb fitting was one of those self rapping jobs.....He screwed it i and once he hit the fuel pump button, he washed a ton of aluminum shavings into his front card. I just changed out the carb, rejetted it and changed his power valves, all was well. But....you had mentioned you changed the float leve and it didn't make a difference. It should have. You need to set that.

Also, holleys are senstive to pressure differences....make sure you don't have any vaccuum leaks. If you float is at the maximum alled float setting and you have a vaccuum leak....that can cause that too.......Those carbs are finely tunes precision instruments.....
 
If you have about 2.7 after regulation you should be OK. For stock motors, 1.5 for little jeep motors, 2.5 for small stock v-8's, for any healthy performance motor, 4-5, for the blown crowd, usually 4-6 for the small carbs, 6-8 for the big carbs, but thats pushing it really....nothing realy over 8 on anything on the street, unless its a special application.....

While your at it....try adjusting your float down some and let it set there and idle...It won't be a instant change, your gonna have to let the notor run about 30 seconds to a minute to tell any difference....and pull that brass plug outta the side of the bowl. Stick a bunch of rags under that hole and start the motor...., back off the locknut below your float adjuster and turn it with a flathead screwdriveruntil fuel stopd coming out of that hole.....then turn it the other way really slowly until fuel just barely trickles out, let the motor continue to idle, you should barely have fuel comingoutta that hole. Snug down that lock nut and continue to watch the fuel flow. You want just a trickle....barely dribbling from that hole. Give it a minute or two....keep an eye on things....you don't want to burn your ride down so be careful doing this. Now....put your bowl plug in and see what happens and reprt back to use.

Lets hear it guys, I don't believe I missed anything, Have I????? OOOOOH...remember, you have 2 floatbowls....and sometimes you can get the wrong parts that can also be a total nightmare to diagnose. If its a new carb....that doesn't necessarily rule out that its a good carb. I'm starting to see some trash come out of some of these places. You'd think as much as we paid fro them, they'd make them right. Quality control has flown out the window...........
 

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