Header Design & Build

[Indycars]

GM spends millions of $$ on exhaust-sound research, and puts a lot of engineering know-how into the design of exhaust systems, especially for 'performance' vehicles. I'm looking forward to the systems you guys come up with.

Well since you made the above statement, I'm guessing you wanted to know more ...... RIGHT ???

This will be a build thread, but it won't be about a TBucket. They will be mostly about performance,
but looks will certainly be in my thoughts as I come up with their shape. Also I'm trying to get them
tucked in close, so the wife does not burn herself again. The design will be mine, but the actual
construction will be performed by GP Headers in Minnesota using 304 SS and polished to look like
chrome.

Yesterday I ordered the mockup kit from GP Headers. It comes with what you see below and also
includes PVC elbows with 22.5°, 45° and 90°. They expect you to purchase the straight PVC pipe
in 1-1/2 inch, it's cheaper than shipping it.

Custom Headers - GPHeaders, Inc.


I have done lots of reading and have spent many dollars on books to better understand the subject.
I have been working towards this goal for 4-5 years now. Have created a couple of Excel
spreadsheets so I could compare the results of the many different authors. Purchased Dynomation 6
and just yesterday I also bought PipeMax when I found a link on the Speed Talk forum for $30 off
on the latest version 4.5 .

PipeMax 2019 HotPass version new Link - Don Terrill’s Speed-Talk

Hope I don't bore too many members with this thread !!!!!
.

 

[Jim B]

I cannot wait for this... I love this stuff.

 

[Indycars]

Before I had the software mentioned above I created these two Microsoft Excel calculators. The
first one is setup so you can compare 8 different engines. The second one compares the several
different equations from different authors for calculating the header dimensions.

If you don't have MS Excel, you can download and install Open Office, it's FREE and will open
any MS Office files. It's been around for 20 years now.

Apache OpenOffice - Official Site - The Free and Open Productivity Suite



This second calculator has cells with a few different colors, if it's the same color, then it's
the same dimension, just a different formula. The squiggly line next to Physics Forum and
Jim McFarland are links to more info.


.

 

[AusBucket]

G'Day Indycars,
Interesting post you put up. I can second your comment on Apache Open Office, I've used it for some years and it's more relevant than ever now MS are going down the rental road with their software.

 

[fluidfloyd]

I am sure some of you have seen this design kit to build your own headers. I first ran across the company back in 2004 when they first came out. Very basic them but they have really stepped up the program since then. While not cheap they are the greatest for fitting up a complete system without ever cutting metal. Maybe in my next life time!

The Icengineworks Store at Trick-Tools.com

Social - icengineworks

 

[Indycars]

G'Day Indycars,
Interesting post you put up. I can second your comment on Apache Open Office, I've used it for some years and it's more relevant than ever now MS are going down the rental road with their software.

I've always had access to MS products thru my work since I worked in IT. But now that
I'm retired, I might be going to Open Office in the future.

 

[Indycars]

I am sure some of you have seen this design kit to build your own headers.

Yes ...... and that would make creating a mockup even easier, but it's very expensive. I went with
GP Headers because their kit is $500 and that applied to the cost of building them when they get
the mockup back. So the mockup cost is $0 in the end.

ICE mock-up kits are very expensive to get enough to complete both sides .... unless you can
design and build ONE side at a time.

Each piece is 1 inch and the Summit kits contain 40 pieces for $180, that's enough to do ONE
primary tube. Times 8 in my case (Both Sides), that's $1440. But those are for 3 inch radius, we
need some to go straight. Then sometimes you want a 4 inch radius, now you need another kit,
they come in 2 inch, 3 inch and 4 inch radius.

What if you want 1.75 inch primaries or a 1.875 inch, well those are both another set of kits. It's
certainly possible to use one diameter and then build from that mock-up, I'm guessing that most
companies or the individual could work from that.

https://www.summitracing.com/search...ending&keyword=ICEngineworks&kr=ICEngineworks

 

[PotvinGuy]

Here's a Magnaflow exhaust system for some rice burner:

We don't have the room under our cars for this kind of stuff. Note the odd one-ended cylinders; these are resonators to either reduce or increase specific frequencies. I took this pic off my TV on today's episode of All Girls Garage. And for fans of that show, here is a pic of the newest girl Faye:

Various sources give her eyes as brown or blue or black, but they look gray or blue-gray to me. She is a Goth hotty and nice addition to the show.
Now that I've completely hijacked this thread and got you all thinking about the other passion in our lives, I'll note that I intend to do 2" primaries on my SBC headers. I have a set of trick double flanges (from some defunct speed shop) to do that; ordinary pipes on a SBC are 1-5/8". I have a custom Sanderson set with 1-3/4" pipes and they are really tight around the bolts. Finally went with studs and 12-pt nuts and a thin socket to get them on. Sanderson has SBC zoomies with 1-7/8" pipes, but they have to squeeze the pipes to fit at the flange.
Indy, I think I'm going to use Custom stainless and mild steel headers fabricated by Stainless Headers Mfg., Inc. here in my area. They ballpark a set of SS pipes at $2k. How's that compare to GP? And considering just leaving them raw with rough welds and let them turn gold. Haven't decided on a collector or muffling yet. Maybe a 4" or 5" collector with a blockoff plate and pipes under the car to SuperTrapps at the rear. I understand you can adjust the loudness by the number of plates; that would be fun to play with.

 

[JetMech727]

It will be interesting to see what you two come up with. I'm particularly interested in what you do for the under body exhaust PotvinGuy.

 

[Gerry]

Double flange Headers. Did a couple of drawings using dimensions from a web site and just freehand outline. Sent them to a Company that laser cut them from SS sheet. Not really too expensive; they seem to charge more from a car/custom supplier because they think its too much trouble for people to go to themselves.

 

[Indycars]

I'll note that I intend to do 2" primaries on my SBC headers.

How did you decide on 2 inch primaries?

Indy, I think I'm going to use Custom stainless and mild steel headers fabricated by Stainless Headers Mfg., Inc. here in my area. They ballpark a set of SS pipes at $2k. How's that compare to GP?

GP says $2200 + $400 (Polish) + $100 (V-Band Clamps). Zach says they don't usually go over
$2200 and I most likely will have lots of bends when compared to the typical sprint style headers.
This is all done with 15° Merge Collectors in a Tri-Y design, which are more expensive than the
standard 4-1 collector.

I need to get around 38 inches of 1.75" diameter in just the primary tubes. One thing I plan on doing
different is NOT having equal length primaries, I want them to be X inches in difference to broaden
the torque curve. I also might use a Stepped Primary tube to held broaden the curve.

I want to broaden the torque curve, where in drag racing you want the highest peak and forgo the
wider peak.

Maybe a 4" or 5" collector with a blockoff plate and pipes under the car to SuperTrapps at the rear.

I'm guessing that you are talking about the length?

What gauge tubing are you going to use?

 

[PotvinGuy]

Gerry, that's what my flanges look like. We have a place here called Coremark Metals (used to be Discount Steel) that will fab just about anything you can sketch and they are very reasonable. I had them do new mounts for my IRS; they did a CAD drawing, laser cut the 1/4" steel and made them for $100 total.
Indy, I want 2" primaries just to look really mean. I'm not considering performance at all since I only drive the bucket to church on Sunday The collector would be 4 or 5 diameter, and maybe 30 long. Whatever looks scariest. Oh, apparently Stainless Headers and GP are related; SH has GP on their website. And they're both here in the MSP area. Very intrigued with your highly technical design. Keep us updated.
Jet, I'll be very interested to see what I can do under car too! Not much room. May have to move things around. May have to scratch whole idea. Put SuperTrapps at ends of collectors. I know one guy who has done that successfully.

 

[Indycars]

Indy, I want 2" primaries just to look really mean. I'm not considering performance at all since I only drive the bucket to church on Sunday .

Two inches should cover that goal then!
Yeah ..... right !

Oh, apparently Stainless Headers and GP are related; SH has GP on their website. And they're both here in the MSP area.

I knew something was going on between them, they did a YouTube video together creating
complete with under car exhaust system for a LS V12 Camaro. But GP says they are located
in Barnesville, MN 56514, wonder what's going on there.

Very intrigued with your highly technical design. Keep us updated.

Thanks for the interest! I will be posting more, I'm just not sure how technical/numbers everyone is interested in seeing???

Comments, anyone interested in more numbers?

 

[Indycars]

Just some dimensions that show what's left over for your 12 pt socket wall thickness when
you have a 1-5/8 inch header primary tube. All dimension are "Inches".


I made these numbers big so you old farts could read this !


Small Block Chevy Gen I Exhaust Dimensions Below


ARP SBC Exhaust Stud Kit (This is the dimension I measured for "ARP
12 point nut diameter" with dial calipers.

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/arp-100-1402

I'm just not sure how to handle that the exhaust port in the Brodix IK 200 head that is a
D-Port shape with max dimensions of 1.34-H x 1.40-W inches, which provides
considerably more room. How does GPH get from the D-Port to a 1.75 inch tube. Guess
that's a question for GP Headers.
.

 

[Indycars]

I needed to know several dimensions of my intake and exhaust ports. They will be part
of the inputs to the Pipemax and Dynomation 6 software.Time to start measuring !

It's not easy to get the port centerline dimensions, the best way is to measure the short side and long side of each port type (Intake or Exhaust) and then average them together. To do this I used some 1/8 wide masking tape to trace the ports, then I pull it out and stick it to a surface in a straight line. Now I can measure the length of each tape. Next 3 photos below.

Long Side Dimension


Short Side Dimension




I needed port volumes, so it's time to get out the 100cc Buret.




Documentation is very important in a project of this type. The yellow cells below are part
of a critical input parameter for Pipemax, in particular is the "Port Length - Centerline".



From the centerline dimension above, the intake and exhaust port velocities in feet/sec (FPS)
can be calculated. The intake and exhaust port velocities of 270.83 and 283.5 FPS are the
critical inputs to Pipemax.


.

 

[JetMech727]

Good to see you are going the extra mile for accurate measurement and data input. Junk data in = junk data out. Did you do any dyno pulls with the previous headers? And do you plan to do any with the new headers? Then you could compare the two "real world actual in use" dyno sheets.

 

[Indycars]

No, I'm not planning on it at this time. I have thought about running an acceleration test
on the street using say 2nd or 3rd gear and timing how long it takes to go from say 30 mph
to 80 mph. I could use the AQ-1 system to accurately measure the time and speed.

AQ-1 Data Logger

 

[Spanky]

I admire your scientific approach to header building, Rick. As fascinating as your information is, I think we began this discussion around the sound of a T-bucket exhaust system and not the performance. The kind of tuning you are pursuing is usually done by Bonneville teams or drag racers. I don't know how useful it will be for a street-driven hotrod. Not being critical, just wondering what kind of useful information the end-game will provide.

 

[fletcherson]

No, I'm not planning on it at this time. I have thought about running an acceleration test
on the street using say 2nd or 3rd gear and timing how long it takes to go from say 30 mph
to 80 mph. I could use the AQ-1 system to accurately measure the time and speed.

AQ-1 Data Logger

Then there are the other variables like timing changes, jetting, etc, if any... those tricky tuning devils, lol... be nice to have unlimited access to a dyno. I think just washing
my car makes it feel faster, lol... no results to back it up but I feel better!

 

[Indycars]

I admire your scientific approach to header building, Rick. As fascinating as your information is, I think we began this discussion around the sound of a T-bucket exhaust system and not the performance. The kind of tuning you are pursuing is usually done by Bonneville teams or drag racers. I don't know how useful it will be for a street-driven hotrod. Not being critical, just wondering what kind of useful information the end-game will provide.

That was the other thread, which is why I started my own thread.

I enjoy the process of trying to make more HP. That's why I do it and I will have something
different then anyone else. There are 3-4 designs that most everyone has with a TBucket,
I want something totally different!

The end game ..... I thought we like TBuckets because each one is unique to it's owner.