New member of the "death wobble" club

[fletcherson]

Let me complicate this discussion, are you specifying the measurement at the tread edge, or rotor? Just to clarify why new or different size tires require alignment ajustments. Tire size variations will change that number.

 

[2old2fast]

The exact measurement is not critical to anyone but you . The amount of toe-in/out can be affected by a large number of varibles . If you can get your car to go down the road straight , not wobble , not dart or hunt & not wear the tires excessivley , then whatever number you use is right for YOUR car.
dave

 

[fletcherson]

I was just pointing out that there is a difference where you measure it for initial specs and that tire size changes can affect it.

 

[2old2fast]

If you want to really mess w/your mind , consider this ; If you're measuring 1/8 toe[1/16 per tire] at the tread , then how much actual angularity [toe] is there at the tread contact patch [roughley 3"] , can't be much !!
dave
My guess is that the scrub radius [because of the brake/wheel offset that many run ]has more to do w/wobble than does toe ,as well as the different frt / rear tire sizes ....

 

[fletcherson]

Exactly! Normally when I am assembling a car, the wheels aren't on it, at least not initially, so I try to use a strait edge and get a acurate measurement to start with, then it's off to the trial and error method to get it to drive good enough to get an actual alignment. I haven't been exposed to many actual alignment racks in a while, but they used to measure from the rim or hub. Not sure if there are pre determined calculations to account for tire size, diameter, or how exactly they figure it. An eighth at the hub darn sure isn't an eighth at the tread edge or center, the larger the tire diameter, the more it grows. I can get them dialed in well enough to track strait and not scrub the tread off with a tape measure and my camber gauge, but I'm no alignment tech. I have had my eye on a alignment kit, with various measuring apparatus, but my friend said he was going to order one, so I was holding out to see how he liked it. I have an ancient snap on camber gauge, but that's it. It is ok to compare and ruff in, not sure how precise it is. I noticed on my bucket that one front tire was worn on the inside. I measured everything, and nothing was set up square, or uniform, so I'm sure I will get a dose of this soon enough. The radius rods were all different, etc, I was relieved to find that because I feared the axle may have been bent from wheelies, etc. but I checked and everything other than adjustments seem to be in order,,, fingers crossed!

 

[Gerry]

And just to complicate thing a bit more, the rear end of mine, Jag IRS based, needs about 1* toe in. I'm running 1/16 toe in on the front.

 

[ellis8500]

I started with some toe-in, maybe 1/8 or so. Got wobble at 30 mph. Adjusted out until no more wobble. I do not know, nor care what the measurement is now. It drives straight, no wobble up to the max I've had it...85 mph. That's as fast as I'll ever take it.

 

[mcmental]

reading this with anticipation as i think i will be in the death wobble gang

 

[txschutte]

When doing a "dirty alignment", as we call them in our shop, I keep a couple of old cookie sheets to place the front tires on, a bit of sand under those cookie sheets. No need to fight the tire tread on concrete when adjusting tie rods.

 

[choppedtop]

That is a great tip. My wife was scolding me for using her lazy susans.

 

[Spanky]

That is a great tip. My wife was scolding me for using her lazy susans.

I set mine up with cross steer & Vega box, and so far, no trouble with the wobbles. Toe-in is about 1/8", using the tire-tread/tape measure method.

 

[roadmonster]

Here is a much easier way than tape or string and it works on your driver as well as during frame-up. A shallow U with short legs at spindle height, blade on one end, steel ruler on other. Slides under the car to measure rear, then around to front to compare. If you do adjust the tie rod, rock the car back and forth a few inches to de-stress and measure again. I bought a set of tires right after this photo (5 years ago) and they still look new. 1/8" toe-in.

 

[Francis Blake]

I had to do the same as ellis8500 I started with a little toe in and it wobbled so I toed it out to much no wobble but it wandered all over the road so a little at a time I toed it back toward center until every thing came together with just a little toe out it drives great

 

[roadmonster]

If your car wobbles with a little toe-in, toe it in MORE to stop it, NEVER toe out (unless your T is front wheel drive). Rear wheel drive cars run toe-in because the wheels splay out as the rear wheels push and take up the play in the suspension. Toe-out is hard on front end, mileage, and tire wear. Your tires may skid sideways hundreds of feet per mile while loading your front end and making the car harder to push. A front end that requires loading to stop shimmy is not set up correctly. What is your front end setup?

 

[Francis Blake]

I am aware of the principle but the more I toed it in the worse it got ,so starting at both extremes and moving it until it drives smooth is the best I could get it and I have driven it several hundred miles this summer and the tires show no uneven wear.

 

[RPM]

Here is how I do it, crude but it works. Set the toe 1/8" in and drive the car. It you the death wobble, turn tie rod 1/4 turn. Did it get better or worse. If it got better but still there turn the tie rod another 1/4 turn. If it got worse you went the wrong way.

 

[RPM]

I am aware of the principle but the more I toed it in the worse it got ,so starting at both extremes and moving it until it drives smooth is the best I could get it and I have driven it several hundred miles this summer and the tires show no uneven wear.

That car always liked about 1/8 toe out. I had to about 140 when I had it.

 

[ibfishn]

yes

 

[iajjpop]

Mine drove like it had a mind of it's own , I put a panhead bar on it[ I have a vega box] really, really helped . Took some wrenchs & went out & drove it & kept adjesting till I liked it. Come home checked it , I had 1/8 + toe out .Drives good & tires don't show any odd wear pattern . Had it up to 80 MPH ,was O.K. Won't drive it that fast again.

 

[iajjpop]

I still have 1/8 '' toe out. Still working great . Replaced a u-joint below steering column this winter.Never did like the one I had on there. Had a slight movement in old one. Looks good now ,Good & tight . Get warm weather , I will try it out .