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Rebuilt longblock or used runner?

tfeverfred

Well-Known Member
Any of you guys have any experiences with salvage yard motors? The guy I'm using is very dependable and I trust him. He wants $650 for a running '84 SBC. I'll be replacing the accessories, of course.

I have a good supplier of longblocks. He wants $1,200 (with the core charge) for a SBC.

I don't expect anyone to make the choice for me, but I would like to hear experiences you may have had with salvage engines.
 
My expirience is that no matter how reputable the boneyard, no matter how well you know the owner, the owner does not know everyones service habbits that turns in a salvage vehicle. Sad truth is some engines run thier best right befor catastrophic failure.

If your budget is really that tight, do it, run the engine, a T on the road is better than no T at all, But i highly recomend a teardown inspection of the block, new gaskets, new bearings and new rings. Its the cheapest insurance you'll ever buy.
 
Thanks, Nailbomb. Those were my intentions if I went that route. A good going through would be in order. I'll check on expenses to do that. Thanks again.
 
I know nothing about engines, so I hope to learn while building my T. Reading the posts by Mike, Tfeverfred and Nailbomb I realize I have some pretty smart friends out there. So here is my very first dumb question. Are all stock 302 sbf the same? I have a 302 out of a 94 F150. Would that be the same as one out of a Mustang?:eek:

thomas:D
 
thomas said:
I know nothing about engines, so I hope to learn while building my T. Reading the posts by Mike, Tfeverfred and Nailbomb I realize I have some pretty smart friends out there. So here is my very first dumb question. Are all stock 302 sbf the same? I have a 302 out of a 94 F150. Would that be the same as one out of a Mustang?:eek:

thomas:D

What your refering to is a ford windsor 5.0L/302ci engine. there were many variations of that engine and its internals scince its use in the ford lineup streches back to the 60's as the 289. It may not be completly the same, but for all practical purposes its the same engine squeezed into a truck. I can say that the block is definitly the same.

the intake from the car to truck might be different, long block is probably(90% sure) the same, computers might be different.

are you planning on keeping it injected, or going the easy route and carbing it?(don't let me scare you from keeping it injected theres plenty of support for injected vehicles nowadays)
 
Fred, I work in a speed shop where we also have a complete engine machine shop. We've built everything from early Hemis for airport tugs to 800 cid IHRA Pro Stock motors.

Here are some facts you need to remember -

1984 SBC. Light block (less material in the block casting) that is 23 years old. If it has not already been rebuilt, it is really going to need it. And if it has been "rebuilt", how was it accomplished? I know fellows that think running a ball hone in the cylinders and putting in a fresh ring set and new bearings is how to rebuild a short block.

The truth is, you need to see how much taper you have in the cylinders. Measure a cylinder at the top and again at the bottom, to see what the taper is like. If there is enough taper, the cylinder ends up like a funnel and the rings almost immediately lose radial tension, as they are expanding and contracting with each pass through the cylinder. If the block needs bored and finish-honed, that's a new piston set and you are going to balance that rotating assembly, aren't you?

Are the main webs round and straight? If not, there's an align hone job in your future.

Those cylinder heads are also light castings and will definitely need milled to get them flat. Not to mention the valve job, and the likelihood of bronze guide liners to get guide clearances back where they belong. And that is assuming the heads are not already cracked from 23 years worth of heat-cycling.

Rods that are 23 years old? No questions asked, they need re-sized and fresh bolts. Don't give it a single thought, just do it.

As you can see, you're starting to run up quite a tab.

I see people, every day, wanting 4 bolt main blocks forged pistons and 300 camshafts for motors that will never see 6500 RPM. Waste of money. Sort out where you want the motor to spend most of its time and build things to make the motor happy in that RPM range.

If you never plan to rev the motor over 6000 RPM, a two bolt block and a cast crank will work just fine. All you need to be concerned about is making sure the cylinder walls are straight, bearing clearances are spot on and you'll have a worry-free short block.

I just read something (can't recall where) about the prices of aftermarket parts. And that's something to look into, because some of the crank and rod prices are really good. But be careful. There is a very popular crank/rod/rotating assembly supplier that supplies some questionable pieces. Sure their cranks are low dollar, but we rarely ever get to wash one and bolt it in. Because the journals are not round. Suddenly that inexpensive crank just got ~$100 higher, because it needs to be ground.

There's no question, you can ball-hone a block and put in a fresh ring and go. But if that ring is worn out in the first 1,000 miles, what favor did you really do yourself?

Frankly, a 23 year-old 350 is not much more than a core. And even if it does run, it's questionable history makes it a $300-$400 core, tops. If somebody wants $650 for a running motor, ask them to bring it up to operating temperature and then perform a leak-down test on it. Not a compression test, but a leak-down. That way you will be able to see how "leaky" the motor is and be able to hear where the air is going.

I'm the lazy sort. Once I get a motor laid in the frame, I don't want to be pulling it back out a year later. ;)
 
Thanks for the input, Mike. Good points to consider.
 
I've been doing this a day or two (more than I care to remember!) and have pretty much seen it all. All the experience has allowed me to see a lot of different combinations and get a pretty good feel for what will work and what won't.
 
Geez mike, way to remind me just how much it is going to be to rebuild my nailhead:p

befor machine work i'm running $1600 for the rebuild kit + 2 carbs + aftermarket intake...

LOL reason #1 i'm going to do the engine after i get the rolling chassis, PRICE of engine rebuild.
 
I made a stop by my guy that has the used engine I was thinking about using. He has no problem doing a leak and compression check, so that was welcome news. I'm going to go for it. I should be getting it by mid July. It's a pain being on a budget, but no worries.

I got my Ebay valve covers yesturday and they look really nice for the price. $14 brand new! I'm looking for a little Hilborn style air scoop, but so far I may have to pay to play. If anyone spies one on the cheap (less than $100) let me know!
 
Yea, Mike, he's a guy I have used before. I swapped a motor in my old Ford Escort and never had a problem with it. I got about 10,000 miles on her before I sold her. All the shops around me use him.

My decision was based mainly on money:eek: and convenience. I'll keep it stock and simple. I'm not trying to have the fastest car in the valley and the power to weight ratio should keep the fun level in a good spot. If it ever gets boring, I'll upgrade. If I was trying to hot foot, the new longblock would be a no brainer. The longblock has a great warranty, but only if they drop it in and it has to go into a GM car. It would be great to go with all new everything, but I just can't do it for a fair weather ride.

Sometimes the logic of building a T just doesn't make since, but I usually only feel this way when it's time to drop large coin. I'm not going to quit, I can't for personal reasons, but it sure is a comfort to have guys like the people on this site and another site I'm on, to keep the enthusiasm up when I think to much. For that I'm greatful. :lol: I hope I can return the favor some day.
 
tfeverfred said:
Sometimes the logic of building a T just doesn't make since...
It's a good think we're looking to have a good time and not be logical. ;)

The comparison is not quite the same for you as it is for those of us in the snow belt, but why spend money on a boat you are only going to use maybe 4 months out of the year? Why spend money on a motorcycle you are only going to be able to comfortably ride 3-4 months out of the year? Yet both of these are perfectly acceptable expenditures for people up this way.

So why not have a car that can only be comfortably driven during those same months?

Keep right on pluggin' on that car, because one thing I've learned in this life is that smiles are absolutely priceless.
 
Well, today was a good day. I went to the yard and caught my friend. He showed me a '84 Chevy P/U that they had gotten in. 350/4 bbl. He fired her up and everything checked out great!:D So, he says he'll let her go for $450! Needless to say I wasted no time forking over the coin. I'll be getting it Tuesday because the guy who is going to go through it with me is out of town and he has a lift and stand. The factory ratings put it at 160/170 HP. We'll get the heads and other things done (carb/manifold swap) and probably keep her stock for now. I should get enough go out of it to have fun and there will always be room for improvement.

Man, it sure did sound good. It had 65,156 miles on it. The truck itself didn't look all that bad. Kinda mashed in the places a work truck would be, but otherwise she looked like the mechanicals were maintained.
 
Well, I got my heads back this afternoon. The guy said they were in good shape. After I started cleaning the block up, I noticed that the engine may very well have gone through a rebuild not long before it arrived at the junkyard. So, that explained why it ran so well.

I also got a good/great lead from the friend who welded my rearend, on a 350 turbo trans. A guy he knows was going to use it on a project, but needs to sell it to pay bills. I hate to take something from someone who is working on a project and ran into trouble, but in a way I'm helping with his REAL problem. Anyway, if all goes well, this weekend will be very busy.

I plan on painting and bolting the engine and tranny together and getting them on the chassis. The guy who is helping me has all the equipment, but he does mechanic work for a living, so he is expecting a little "grease" for his wheels. So, depending on how much "grease" he needs, I should have some nice pics of this weekend. It will be nice to see a power plant sitting between those rails.
 
tfeverfred said:
Well, I got my heads back this afternoon. The guy said they were in good shape. After I started cleaning the block up, I noticed that the engine may very well have gone through a rebuild not long before it arrived at the junkyard. So, that explained why it ran so well.

I also got a good/great lead from the friend who welded my rearend, on a 350 turbo trans. A guy he knows was going to use it on a project, but needs to sell it to pay bills. I hate to take something from someone who is working on a project and ran into trouble, but in a way I'm helping with his REAL problem. Anyway, if all goes well, this weekend will be very busy.

I plan on painting and bolting the engine and tranny together and getting them on the chassis. The guy who is helping me has all the equipment, but he does mechanic work for a living, so he is expecting a little "grease" for his wheels. So, depending on how much "grease" he needs, I should have some nice pics of this weekend. It will be nice to see a power plant sitting between those rails.

Fred i KNOW THE FEELING.The wife has to come to work to drag you home cause your just sitting on a milk crate and staring and planning the next move.I'm happy for you Fred
 
:lol:Man, you have been to my world.:lol: I've been looking in ALL my catalogs for things to give the engine the "look" I want. I'm going with the Classic headers. They have a nice smooth exit from the block and kind of flow. The sprints look too racy for what I want. A plain, round, chrome 10" air cleaner, tall chrome valve covers, black plug wires with red wire seperators, chrome pulleys will complete the look. I'm painting the block red because I'm going with a black paint job. Yea, I FINALLY chose a freaking color that should fit the new/retro theme I have going. I may even keep the OEM quadrajet and manifold. I want her to look like a hot rodder from the '50s/'60s on a budget with todays tech put her together. The Edelbrock Performer carb I was going to use is just too damn shiney!

So, this weekend (if the tranny comes through) will see the power plant installed and then in two weeks.... the shiney stuff goes on.
 
All went well. Please see my gallery, members page for details and a thread I started.
 

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