Starter issue

[Jim B]

I have this little starter on my 383 small block.
The flexplate is 168 teeth and the starter matches that ok. Tested the starter on the bench first and it worked ok. When I put power to the starter yesterday to turn the motor over, the solenoid worked as it should. The starter gear however engaged the flexplate and wedged itself there without turning over the motor. I turned the motor a fraction of an inch by hand the the starter gear disengaged. SHIMS, I thought! so I started small and added flat washers one at a time. Washers one through 4, no change. Washer 5- too far away from flexplate to engage properly. Now what?

 

[Island Girl]

Alignment maybe . . . .

Is this a new / replacement starter?

Is your block made for a staggered, ( "L") bolt pattern starter mounting?

Check the battery voltage with power applied to the starter

 

[Spanky]

Island Girl is right; I learned the hard way that a weak battery will destroy a brand new starter. Also, the old paper clip gauge works well when shimming your starter.

How to Shim a GM Style Starter by Powermaster - Summit Racing

 

[Jim B]

New starter. New crate motor. No L pattern, just two bolts in line. Would a weak battery not allow the starter gear to disengage from the the flexplate when powered off?

 

[T-Test]

Wrong bendix for the flywheel.

 

[Jim B]

153/168-Tooth is what the specifications read for the starter. It appears to fit perfectly on my 168 tooth flex plate. But I guess looks can be deceiving.

 

[HenrysT]

Are you putting shims on BOTH bolts? Try putting a shim on the inside bolt only.

 

[Indycars]

Also, the old paper clip gauge works well when shimming your starter.

What size is a standard paper clip? Wish they would have give a diameter.

 

[Indycars]

When I put power to the starter yesterday to turn the motor over, the solenoid worked as it should. The starter gear however engaged the flexplate and wedged itself there without turning over the motor.

Since the motor did not start, you maybe just fine. If it did start it would be just like when you moved the flywheel, it would be free to pull back the bendix gear.

 

[fletcherson]

Since the motor did not start, you maybe just fine. If it did start it would be just like when you moved the flywheel, it would be free to pull back the bendix gear.

Agree, plus it will machine itself as it ages. If everything is new, the gears are sharp, they will work much smoother as they work those edges down. I would just shim it if needed to obtain the recommended clearance and see how it acts when it fires up.

 

[Island Girl]

Here's another video on shimming GM starters, it talks about the starter not disengaging when the motor isn't able to start, like when on a stand and you're just testing the starter install.

It also gives a 0.040" diameter for a typical paper clip, so you have a dimension to go on.

Be sure you don't have the pinion extending too far into the ring gear, that can also cause disengagement issues . . . . about 2/3, not more than 3/4 of the width of the ring gear is usually where you want it to be, although I did see a video for MSD starters that says 1/4 to 1/2 the width of the ring gear and gives 0.020" to 0.035" as the gear mesh clearance . . .

 

[Jim B]

Thanks all, just wanted to make sure I was headed in the right direction. This is good stuff and I will push ahead. Sooner or later a start up video WILL be posted. Working on about 10 little issues at once.

 

[Jim B]

I finally got back around to the start up attempt. Oh and by the way, IG- it is an "L" shaped set of holes on the block. Didn't realize it since I was only using the straight holes. But back to the business at hand. I can only get the motor to turn about half a rotation and not spin enough to start. I have it on a freshly charged battery but after a couple of attempts with the same outcome and the starter heating up, I stopped. What am I doing wrong now?

 

[409T]

Battery cable is not heavy enough? Poor connection(s)?

 

[Jim B]

Using old jumper cable that I cut to length.

 

[Spanky]

Using old jumper cable that I cut to length.

I think that's your problem. Most "jumper" cables are not up to the current carrying capacity of a 2 gauge battery cable.

 

[Indycars]

I have it on a freshly charged battery

Have you had the battery tested? Fully charged does not mean you have a good battery, it has to carry
a larger load when the starter is engaged.

Pull the spark plugs out and try again, will it turn over? Assuming you have a good battery and it does
not turn over, have the starter tested.

 

[JetMech727]

I agree with what others are saying Jim. Sounds like a starter amp draw issue to me. Either the battery isn't up to the task or its the cables. Do the cables get hot? If you've checked the starter bendix engagement to the flywheel and it's not binding then it sure points to the previously mentioned items.

 

[Jim B]

It seems the battery is up to it but I think the cables are not. They do get hot. Starter is shimmed right. Engine turns by hand with the plugs still in using a half inch ratchet so the motor seems fine. I am going for bigger, shorter, real battery cables and try again later. Thanks guys.

 

[T-Test]

I know it is a NEW starter, but it sounds as if it is bad. Replace/TEST and replace battery cables and get a braided ground cable to run from starter bolt to frame. I have seen the starter ground through the shifter cable because it (starter) wasn't properly grounded. Things tend to heat up when too small of cable is used and it will melt/ burn down all associated with it.