Alternator comparisons

[Hackerbilt]

Hey guys...I'm currently (LoL) going thru some Alternator relocation gymnastics and it got me wondering what people are using right now.
My setup had the Alt on the drivers front and very low...with an adjustable idler pulley above because my frame is too narrow to allow belt adjustment.
That pulley died and finding a new bearing has been a bit of a chore. I don't really like the complexity of it all anyway.
I decided to relocate the alt to the passenger side and a bit higher so I will have enough room.
Still very tight with the regular 10SI(?) 1 wire style lump...but workable.

I also have a CS130 that fits a bit better but the bolt spacing seems like it will make the adjustment arm super complicated. I've read that the CS130 is better but I'm not convinced it actually is.

Are there other small, built in regulator Alternators that are commonly used and reasonably easy to wire in?
I figured I might check out the local Pick a Part to find a core and test fit/build around...then pick up a new one to match.
Problem is...I don't know what ones have proven to be a good swap!

Figured a post here to combine all the potential donors might be a good idea that could also help others down the road.

Whatcha got??? ...and pictures would be awesome!

 

[2old2fast]

Do you have a rebuilder in your area.? I'm in a small town & we have one , that's where I went. They sold me a small GM 1-wire 100 amp for about $75, garunteed to handle hi RPM.

dave



it's been flawless for 40K miles , 13 years

 

[Hackerbilt]

Do you have a rebuilder in your area.? I'm in a small town & we have one , that's where I went. They sold me a small GM 1-wire 100 amp for about $75, garunteed to handle hi RPM.

dave
it's been flawless for 40K miles , 13 years

Oh yes...I'd say there are perhaps 4 rebuilders close by.
I'm mostly wondering what exactly to look for. What others have had good success with in mounting and wiring.

That small alt you mention.
Was it a CS130 with 1 wire or the original 1 wire style?
Mine now is the common 3 wire with the loop to the output post to make it work. I have it temporarily mounted and it does look a little big.

 

[2old2fast]

I don't know numbers , but it's a small GM [90's] w/ a 1 wire conversion.. How wide is your frame , mines low driver's side...I made my own mount..
dave

 

[2old2fast]

Going strictly off pics. on the web , it looks like the cs130...
dave

 

[Hackerbilt]

I don't know numbers , but it's a small GM [90's] w/ a 1 wire conversion.. How wide is your frame , mines low driver's side...I made my own mount..
dave

Don't remember off the top of my head...but my rad bolts down thru the top of the rails instead of needing tabs inside...and I'm running a big block too.
The mounting setup now on the drivers side is positioned in such a way that moving the alt on the main mounting bolt does nothing to tighten the belt. It's a static mount and the old idler pulley tightened the belt.
I'm going with the passenger side and making a new mount that works.
I must check those cs130's and see if different clocking arrangements were available.

 

[2old2fast]

BB -SB are the same in that area of the block IIRC.... you can re-clock 90* at a time [4 bolts]
dave

 

[Hackerbilt]

you can re-clock 90* at a time [4 bolts]
dave

True...but the clocking I'm mostly concerned with right now is the positioning of the pivot and adjusting lug, both of which are cast into the front section. The one I have will require some creative bracketing to allow the thing to tighten the belt.
There IS one threaded hole at the rear though.
Not sure yet if it would be a good thing to bracket the adjuster off that one.
Think I will run up to the garage and play with it for a while. I can start the upper pivot area regardless as both the CS and SI will mount the same there.

 

[fletcherson]

My car has a bbc and the alternator is on the pass side, just a standard delco 1-wire alt just above the frame and fairly tight. It looks like they used a pre 69 style alternator bracket that goes from the intake to the alt on the drivers side originally. It bolts to the water pump in this config. It has room to adjust and looks ok. I am not sure if I will leave it there yet. I would like to mount it low and left, just to make it as invisible as possible without negatively affecting operation and serviceability. I have noticed some very small units on some older pre fuel injected imports and on small Diesel engines, tractors, etc... If you aren't running electric fans,, fuel pumps, etc, you don't need a high amp unit to maintain the battery and lights. I thought about one of those as a alternative.

 

[Hackerbilt]

My car has a bbc and the alternator is on the pass side, just a standard delco 1-wire alt just above the frame and fairly tight. It looks like they used a pre 69 style alternator bracket that goes from the intake to the alt on the drivers side originally. It bolts to the water pump in this config. It has room to adjust and looks ok. I am not sure if I will leave it there yet. I would like to mount it low and left, just to make it as invisible as possible without negatively affecting operation and serviceability. I have noticed some very small units on some older pre fuel injected imports and on small Diesel engines, tractors, etc... If you aren't running electric fans,, fuel pumps, etc, you don't need a high amp unit to maintain the battery and lights. I thought about one of those as a alternative.

Took a CS130 apart and reclocked it to align the rear hole with the front adjuster lug and it looks like I can make a bridge to connect the two, then fab the adjuster to that and have a solid setup.
Just using the rear bolt hole alone would be iffy because it would put a lot of twisting force into the alternator and potentially overstress the case.
The big lug on top that it rotates on will need to be drilled to 7/16 to match the hole in the head, but thats simple enough.
Looks like a CS130 on the passenger side will do it!

I am running an electric fan and pump so I like the idea of having some extra amps available. Also I will be using the remote sensor wire on this Alt to get my output up when the headlights are on.
I've never had an issue but the volt meter only reads 12.5v at night. Thats not good at all.
I wanna see around 13.5-14v all lit up!

 

[fletcherson]

Took a CS130 apart and reclocked it to align the rear hole with the front adjuster lug and it looks like I can make a bridge to connect the two, then fab the adjuster to that and have a solid setup.
Just using the rear bolt hole alone would be iffy because it would put a lot of twisting force into the alternator and potentially overstress the case.
The big lug on top that it rotates on will need to be drilled to 7/16 to match the hole in the head, but thats simple enough.
Looks like a CS130 on the passenger side will do it!

I am running an electric fan and pump so I like the idea of having some extra amps available. Also I will be using the remote sensor wire on this Alt to get my output up when the headlights are on.
I've never had an issue but the volt meter only reads 12.5v at night. Thats not good at all.
I wanna see around 13.5-14v all lit up!

Fans pull a decent load, some head lights do too. The last thing you want is low voltage. Sounds like you have a fix in the works! I am not sure off hand what the cs130 is, I presume it's designed for fuel injection as most newer cars are. The newer alternators are higher output and should resolve your low voltage issue. I had a similar issue on my iroc with under drive pulleys on it at lower rpm. FYI, I have a dump truck that I put upgraded headlights on and it has dual battery's and high output alt, but the lights drew so much more amperage that they would overheat the switch and cause the relay to drop out. Not a good feeling, lol. I ended up using a relay system so the lights were tapped directly from the battery's via relays, etc and shortened up the wires that act as a resistor. It really helped. The lights are brighter, don't pulse or fluxuate and stay on. I also noticed a difference on the ammeter. Not sure how you wired your car, just some food for thought.

 

[2old2fast]

Denso makes some small alt. , google denso alternater dimensions.
dave
for the little bit of elec on most T's , 50-60 amps should be plenty

 

[Hackerbilt]

Fans pull a decent load, some head lights do too. The last thing you want is low voltage. Sounds like you have a fix in the works! I am not sure off hand what the cs130 is, I presume it's designed for fuel injection as most newer cars are. The newer alternators are higher output and should resolve your low voltage issue. I had a similar issue on my iroc with under drive pulleys on it at lower rpm. FYI, I have a dump truck that I put upgraded headlights on and it has dual battery's and high output alt, but the lights drew so much more amperage that they would overheat the switch and cause the relay to drop out. Not a good feeling, lol. I ended up using a relay system so the lights were tapped directly from the battery's via relays, etc and shortened up the wires that act as a resistor. It really helped. The lights are brighter, don't pulse or fluxuate and stay on. I also noticed a difference on the ammeter. Not sure how you wired your car, just some food for thought.

Yes...and I definately want some improvement in my lights so I will be using relays this time around. Mount them under the dash I guess and use up sized feed wires out to the lights.
My Uncles Customized Ford van started pulsing the lights on and off once he put in Halogen headlights. He eventually went with relays too. Worked great after that. Was your truck a Ford? It was apparently a common issue with them.

No relay on the fan either at the moment!

The CS series is the replacement for the common Chevy SI series that has the internal regulator. Smaller case and higher output, but still has an internal regulator so its pretty easy to hook up.
The wiring in the car is the same as when I bought it and a bit gnarly up under the dash but safe.
Doesn't have a real fuse panel, just a 5-6 circuit fuse block, off a single buss bar.
I'm gonna have to think about the relationship between buss bar power/ main charge wire/sense wire to get a workable improvement that doesn't end up overcharging the battery.

I'm thinking on having perhaps a 12g wire to feed the buss bar direct from the battery.
The sense wire to the buss bar as well, and a 10g charging wire direct from the Alternator, over the engine in a loom with the sense wire, in thru the firewall and back to the battery which is under the passenger seat/floor.
I think that will keep output from the Alt at a sensible level and the long 10g charge wire should keep the charge rate reasonable.
Just running the charge wire to the starter might not give any real resistance due to the large cable from the starter to the battery.

I haven't done a whole lot of wiring, but I think that will work from what I've been reading on the subject.

 

[fletcherson]

Yes, it is a older ford f series cab. There are charts and such that will help determine wire size, etc, ie ohms law, etc... There is a corolation between wire size verses length. Figure the amperage, then determine the wire size based on that and the length of the run, longer runs require larger diameter wire. Larger diameter wire is a smaller resistor. It's always better to error towards a larger than required wire diameter. Also what the wire is made of makes a difference too. Copper is the best of the common choices. Just an FYI, not inferring any lack of knowledge or anything. Here's a tip, the next time you are at your favorite scrap yard, grab a bunch of relays. I have found that they are smaller and better quality than ones available from electronic supply sources, and much cheaper. I keep a hearty supply of them, they are simple to figure out how to install, and female spade connectors fit them nicely. I also enclose them in a heavy plastic bag and a wire tie if they are exposed to moisture, ie under the hood, etc... I also take time to snatch wiring harnesses at the scrap yard or when I scrap out a car. It's high quality, inexpensive, and nice to have on hand. I have a big plastic storage bin full.

 

[Hackerbilt]

I get bored reading charts and stuff! LoL
I was reading some stuff on Madelectrical.com a couple of years ago though that made a lot of sense to me, so I will go there again once I get to the actual wiring part.
I really don't want to get into a full rewire this winter but I'm kinda worried thats where I might end up.
You know how things snowball....

We think alike on recycled parts!
I have a 2 liter container full of relays and plugs that I pulled from different scrapped cars over the years. Another couple of containers of bulbs, a small tray of various toggle switches etc I pulled from big trucks...another container full of different rubber hole plugs and another of various rubber hood bumpers and the like.
They've saved my butt a hundred times over the years!

 

[Indycars]

Maybe you don't needed it, but someone else reading this months later will be interested.

 

[fletcherson]

That's good info to figure electrical stuff with! I actually studied electronics after I got injured and prohibited from returning to my former employment, so it's pretty simple to me, but can be intimidating if you don't understand the basics. And for the scrap parts, lol...I am a believer. Before I began hording parts, so to speak, it seemed like I was always running or sending someone to get a friggin $2.00 bulb or the like to finish up after a paint job or collision repair. It's worth infinitely more than the value of the part to me to avoid dropping everything and running after one or not being able to finish up a job. I think everyone who intends to work on or maintain cars should get into the habit of keeping and organizing basic stuff, makes life simpler!

 

[Hackerbilt]

That's good info to figure electrical stuff with! I actually studied electronics after I got injured and prohibited from returning to my former employment, so it's pretty simple to me, but can be intimidating if you don't understand the basics. And for the scrap parts, lol...I am a believer. Before I began hording parts, so to speak, it seemed like I was always running or sending someone to get a friggin $2.00 bulb or the like to finish up after a paint job or collision repair. It's worth infinitely more than the value of the part to me to avoid dropping everything and running after one or not being able to finish up a job. I think everyone who intends to work on or maintain cars should get into the habit of keeping and organizing basic stuff, makes life simpler!

Indycars...thats a great chart on wire sizing! Is there any particular reason for the coloring on the lower right?
The round chart I don't really get. LoL
I'm gonna print the wire size one off and keep it in my garage "library"!

Fletcherson, you must be a bodyman too.
We keep a supply of recycled spares at the shop ourselves. It's always good to have spare weatherstrip clips, bulbs and sockets etc. Like you say, bulbs are easy to find and not so expensive usually, but what really matters is the downtime the waiting creates.

Speaking of downtime...I can't wait to get back at the T this weekend. It's been a hectic week!!!

 

[Indycars]

Indycars...thats a great chart on wire sizing! Is there any particular reason for the coloring on the lower right?
The round chart I don't really get. LoL
I'm gonna print the wire size one off and keep it in my garage "library"!

Each color is one particular gauge size. The lower right corner is 2 gauge
and it's good for 25 feet and 150 or 200 amps.

The round chart just give you all the different equations for calculating
Power, Resistance or Current. It's basically Ohm's Law.
P=Power
R=Resistance
I=Current

If you need to know the CURRENT so you can put in the proper fuse.
You also know VOLTAGE and RESISTANCE of the circuit, then you
can can find out the fuse size.
I=E/R (Remember I=CURRENT) .... I=13.5v/1.0 ohms = 13.5 amps ..... so use a 15 or 20 amp fuse.

Make any sense, feel free to ask another question.
.

 

[fletcherson]

Indycars...thats a great chart on wire sizing! Is there any particular reason for the coloring on the lower right?
The round chart I don't really get. LoL
I'm gonna print the wire size one off and keep it in my garage "library"!

Fletcherson, you must be a bodyman too.
We keep a supply of recycled spares at the shop ourselves. It's always good to have spare weatherstrip clips, bulbs and sockets etc. Like you say, bulbs are easy to find and not so expensive usually, but what really matters is the downtime the waiting creates.

Speaking of downtime...I can't wait to get back at the T this weekend. It's been a hectic week!!!

The downtime and loss of momentum. The clips and things are difficult to find sometimes. The old originals defidently fit best. I used to own a garage where we did body and mechanical work a lifetime ago...I always stripped all of the clips and fasteners from replaced parts and when at the salvage yard. I still have drawers full of that stuff. It saves me every so often even though I don't work on stuff except for myself, I can't seem to get away from it. I don't have the heart to get rid of that stuff, it isn't eating anything.