fletchersons T project
- Thread starter fletcherson
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fluidfloyd
Active Member
fletcherson
Tell me what I'm looking at with your buggy spring and a coilover spring. I would think that is a lot of spring for a normally lite weight car.
Tell me what I'm looking at with your buggy spring and a coilover spring. I would think that is a lot of spring for a normally lite weight car.
fletcherson
Well-Known Member
I haven't driven enough to say, Just melted the tires and bounced the front wheels a couple times and bought it...It seems to be set up decent, not too stiff. I intend to change the rear spring over shocks to adjustable coil over to help dial it in. The slicks have to go as well. This thing is a time capsule. It was in storage since the 80's. I have a lot of upgrades to do to make it more user friendly.
fletcherson
Well-Known Member
I wasn't involved in the design of this one. I am in the process of evaluating what all I am going to change...It was set up for drag racing, so I have a pretty long list so far...The over loads are going to be replaced with coil overs. It actually seems to have decent travel, but I bet it's pretty stiff. I only drove it a couple passes down the road, not enough to really get a feel for the suspension.
ha ha. Looks good so far. 
Man, you definately bought a nice ride! Great potential!
fletcherson
Well-Known Member
Thanks, It has a lot of potential, but will take some work. I want to retain the drive train, but will likely change the gear, cam, etc. It has a pretty stout solid lift cam and a 4:56 posi now and I fear 13:1 pistons. I will detune it to make it streetable, but it is a toy. I want to add front brakes and relocate the steering box and shifter. The token toy lights and related will be gone. I am thinking it will be all black (motor, frame, etc) with the tub and radiator shell black cherry with black interior and polished and chrome parts. I wouldn't put as much chrome on it, but I have it, so I will use it. I want to make it more sinister looking, but refined. I plan to add collectors to the headers and route the exhaust behind the axle and turn down to make it more enjoyable to drive. Just my initial thoughts for it.
fluidfloyd
Active Member
fletcherson...I'm sure you probably know this or at least have given it some thought but I'm going to touch on it anyway. You are running two different spring rates on the rear. I also think that as the suspension compresses you might be getting some binding due to the fact that the coil/shocks are swinging on a different arc the the buggy spring. I would do away with one of the springs. If you dump the buggy spring then a true coilover would be a good choice. By making that choice you will need to add a centering devise of some kind. If you keep the buggy spring then dump the shock/spring unit you now have and install a good hydraulic shock with adjustable valving. Trying to tune two different spring rates and designs will be a time consuming project and might not ever get you where you want to be. Just an opinion and we all know what that says. Good Luck.
George
fletcherson
Well-Known Member
I really didn't give it much thought yet...I was consumed by other aspects of it. That is a very good point. I don't know if the pics allowed you to see the center spring end links, but they have a shackle type hinge on each side that allows free movement on the rearend, I don't think it could physically bind, but I am not sold on the package as is. It could very well work against itself while cornering. I was doing some digging for older kits similar to mine and there are a lot of kits offered by speedway and others that have this setup. I haven't messed with them with the high arch spring so it is new territory. I did learn that the buggy springs work well if properly pre stressed and with the correct number of leafs and from the little I read, it seems about right and has deflection without a lot of force. I think the overload shocks (what I call them) are more for lateral stability or cornering than actual suspension, buy I do not like them with no adjustment. I was trying to figure out exactly who sold the kit by looking at the various offerings and it is similar to the speedway stuff and with the age of it, I believe that's where it originated, I have no real idea because the company that built it, The Rod Shop, has been out of business since the late 80's. It was obviously built to go strait and fast, not so much for cornering so I will likely need to make numerous changes to make it comfortable to drive on the street. For the sake of trying to use as much of it as possible, I will likely begin by retaining the buggy spring and changing the shock setup and tires/wheels, etc and go from there. If that doesn't work out I suppose I could go with coil overs and a pan hard bar or whatever makes the most sense with the setup I have to work with. It's a cool old ride, but making it what I want it to be may prove to be a chore. I appreciate any observation or advice, It makes me think about it if nothing else!
smokeyco75
Member
Hmm so that's kinda how my T will look when I get my 454 in it. Nice!
fletcherson
Well-Known Member
Hey George, I was giving some thought to the rear springs...I have read conflicting opinions about buggy springs vs coil over. The thing that most concerns me was some comments about instability at higher speeds with the buggy spring. I know that I need to go with one or the other, not both. I fear that could have been the motive for the coil over installation, but I don't have any history. You seem to have some wisdom on the subject, What can you tell me? I am just not sure which one will work best with the set up I have. I guess it's a sort of lift bar setup and I'm not sure how well it articulates. I will soon have it apart enough to remove all the springs and that will tell me how it actually moves as I will be able to put it through it's paces, so to speak. I think from looking at it that the out bound springs would provide the most stability due to leverage and angle, but many articles claim the buggy springs ride the best. ???
fluidfloyd
Active Member
fletcherson... Without more detail suspension pictures or information I would be guessing on a lot of this but I'll tell you what I think as I see it from my chair. First we'll talk about the springs and choices. A spring is a spring is a spring. It might be in the form of a leaf, a coil or a torsion bar but they all do the same thing.They hold up the weight of the vehicle at ride height and absorb road bumps, weight transfer on acceleration or leaning forces in cornering. What the can not do is dampen the spring oscillation. As you probably know from experience when your older car comes to a stop and the front end bounces for a short time you think bad shocks and you would probably be right. So once you decide on a spring type then you need to buy a good quality shock absorber even though the term damper is really more appropriate. If you use leaf or torsion bars then you just need a shock body. If you go with a coil spring you can either get a coilover assembly or as in the earlier days a OEM coil and a separate shock. Factory cars due to cost use a sealed, non rebuildable hydraulic shock that has fixed valving. I personally think that all shocks should be of the adjustable style as every vehicle will handle differently based on design and driver. It looks like you have split Ford radius rods from what I can make out. Not really the way Henry intended for them to be used. Basically a rear axle locator that will by design absorb rear axle torque as the pinion tries to rotate up. As those tubes have very little vertical wall strength they will bow or bend if enough torque is applied and you have the tire to handle it. Not only are they a week component for hi power applications but they are in the 80 year old range and could be full of internal rust. So you need to first figure out how you really plan to drive your car. If it's a cruiser then you can likely make what you have work. If you're planning on big tires and motor wit lots of "firewall" launches you need to rethink the suspension system. You need to see if that spring is able to swivel and not twist as the rear end goes up and down. Everything needs to be isolated from each other so one action doesn't effect three things. Get some good detail pictures and we'll all look it over and give you our various opinions. There is no reason to let this over whelm you as it's really not that complicated. Just so you will know, I like coil over shocks for several reasons. They are compact and completes as a unit. Makes for very easy packaging and mounting. Look very good. Adjustable damping. You can change the ride height either with multi hole mounting brackets or by adjusting the lower spring locator pad/spanner ring although the shock stroke will need to be long enough to keep you from running out of stoke and bottoming the internals. And if you need more or less spring rate you can get replacements at a very reasonable price and change them with minimal effort. So at this point that's about all I can tell you for now. Hope this will give you something to think about. Let us know what you find and we'll go from there. Take care.
George
Buggy springs are great if you are building a buggy. The used them in the 1800s on buggys that a horse pulled. Yea they used them on Ts in the early 1900s, but those cars had 20hp and went 20 mph. They look cool, and old school, but they ride and handle like a buck board. Some like that. I prefer coil overs and always try to steer guys away from the buck board springs. The coil overs are so adjustable, it just makes sense to use them and they ride so much better. Just my 2 cents worth.
fletcherson
Well-Known Member
Thanks for your input! I don't want to waste a bunch of time and money on something that is doomed from inception. Do you like the coil overs to be angled or plumb, or do you notice much difference? I know to eliminate the buggy spring I will need to incorporate a pan hard bar or similar device, but I would like to use as much of what I have as possible and the housing is chrome, so it complicates things somewhat as far as welding new brackets, etc.
fletcherson
Well-Known Member
Thanks for the input. I am leaning towards the coil over setup for a couple reasons and it seems to be the preferred method. i need to spend some time with it to get a feel for how I want to do it. The thing about working with an existing platform , It's nice from one perspective, but if it's not what you want, it is frustrating due to wasting a lot of parts, etc..Just another day at the office!
fluidfloyd
Active Member
fletcherson... I know that with all of the replies and different opinions you get from this forum and all the magazine/internet pictures and ideas it can sometimes become over load at times. I get myself in that same situation more then you might think on a regular basis. Right now I'm in a evil versus good type of argument with a rear suspension design on two separate projects and both are like the the "Son, you can only have one kind of pie today so make your choice" which you probably heard a million times as a kid. If this is your first time design/build for a roadster then I would go with what your thinking is for look and style that suits you and your perceived abilities. You perceived ability is usually a lot less then your actual ability as you move forward. As always there are plenty of people here and elsewhere that are always willing to help and advise you up to the point of driving your hot rod away. Don't ever feel shy about reaching out for the complicated or the most simple of questions. We are all in this curse together and I wouldn't have it anyway! Good luck is something I say on here from time to time but actually good luck has nothing to do with it. Just go do it is probably a better saying in our case. So...."Go Do It."
George
fletcherson
Well-Known Member
Thanks, I just need to make up my mind which way to go with the car. Everyone that sees it in person thinks it is too cool to change due to being an old school drag car with period correct parts, etc...I too like it for those assets. It is just not built to cruise in and my drag racing days are behind me. I am just going to put it on the back burner through the holidays and gather info and think about it. I am toying with the idea of just installing brakes on it with a spindle mount wheel disc kit, moving the steering box, doing something simple with the rear suspension using as much of what I have as possible, and just cleaning up the whole thing with fresh paint, rubber, etc..and run it until someone else has to have it and then build what I want from scratch. I don't want to waste the parts, and I don't want to ruin what it is by trying to adapt it, so to speak. Then there is the interior space issue. I am 6' 220 and have some limitations in mobility due to having a fused spine from an accident in 97, so jumping or climbing over the side will get old fast. I know I can add a door, etc... I just need to make up my mind. Every time I think I have a direction, someone comes by and has a different opinion based on what it is. The car has an effect on guys from my place in time. I might be ahead to just update and preserve it and move on. I really like the 41 Willy's coup and almost bought one last year. I appreciate everyone's feedback on this site and must say that from viewing some other sites, you guys are the cream of the crop! It will be an awesome car either way, just depends on it's purpose.
roadmonster
Member
If you just replace the coilovers with tube shocks, you will already have a working rear end suspension. If it still rides too hard, you can remove the top leaf. Just saying this because shocks are cheap and you can dial things in without spending a lot of money. You won't need a Panhard bar or any new parts except shocks.
