Fuel / Gas
- Thread starter oino
- Start date
one finger john
Active Member
Oino, how ya doing. Have you moved yet? If you are still on the West coast I would run 91 octane. It all depends on the compression ratio of your engine and how big (or how small) your cam is. Higher compression needs more octane. Also timing is important. Remember I said 12* initial, 32 - 36* total (if it rattles,back it down from 36*), all in by 3000 rpms. Never ran E85, have heard you can run more timing because of the additional cooling in the combustion chamber from the ethanol. I'm sure there is someone here that has more experience with E85 than I do. Are you driving the T yet?
John
I'm in Lincoln, Nebraska now. They have the midgrade here for 2.67 with 10% E.
I was thinking of getting an E85 upgrade for my carb.
http://e85carbs.com
I've ordered an engine for my car. 350 4 bolt main, pro cam, flat top pistons, 194 heads 290hp.
Will be here next Friday.
one finger john
Active Member
There, see ... some one with more experience with E85 than I have.
Also, Oino, does this crate engine have a roller cam or flat tappet cam? Flat tappet you MUST run a zinc/phosphate oil additive (ZDDP ?) for break in and running to prevent flattening the cam lobes.
Reading at the E85 site
"E85 is 85 percent alcohol with 15 percent gasoline and has a 105-octane rating; this can cover lots of boost. Up to 13.5:1 compression. Yes, you need 30 percent more E85 than gas, so you do lose some mileage; so typically you will see a 3-cent-per-mile increase in cost over premium unleaded"
Mike
Well-Known Member
One major downside to E-85 is the volume of fuel necessary to make the same power.
As Bruce's post points out, an E-85 combination will use 30% more volume than gasoline. Which means you're going to be filling up a lot more than the gasoline guys. The power you once made with 10 gallons of fuel will suddenly require 13 gallons of fuel.
If you do want to convert, it will take more than just a carb. You will want to make sure you are using a fuel pump rated for ethanol and any flexible hoses in the system are also ethanol rated. If you're using any aluminum AN fittings in your system, I would get all of those changed to steel/stainless steel, as well. You can do it now or do it later, after the ethanol has eroded the aluminum stuff away to nothing. Be sure you have the motor sealed up tight as a drum, so as to not dilute oil with the additional fuel volume.
I gave E-85 some serious consideration, since I am building from the ground up. And the more I looked, the more I questioned E-85. We use fossil fuel to turn food into fuel? What sense does that make? I feel a rant coming on and I've already ranted about this subject once before, which you can read HERE.
I think E-85 might be interesting to try in a race application, but for a driver? Five thumbs down. Wait a minute, where did I get all these extra thumbs...
As Bruce's post points out, an E-85 combination will use 30% more volume than gasoline. Which means you're going to be filling up a lot more than the gasoline guys. The power you once made with 10 gallons of fuel will suddenly require 13 gallons of fuel.
If you do want to convert, it will take more than just a carb. You will want to make sure you are using a fuel pump rated for ethanol and any flexible hoses in the system are also ethanol rated. If you're using any aluminum AN fittings in your system, I would get all of those changed to steel/stainless steel, as well. You can do it now or do it later, after the ethanol has eroded the aluminum stuff away to nothing. Be sure you have the motor sealed up tight as a drum, so as to not dilute oil with the additional fuel volume.
I gave E-85 some serious consideration, since I am building from the ground up. And the more I looked, the more I questioned E-85. We use fossil fuel to turn food into fuel? What sense does that make? I feel a rant coming on and I've already ranted about this subject once before, which you can read HERE.
I think E-85 might be interesting to try in a race application, but for a driver? Five thumbs down. Wait a minute, where did I get all these extra thumbs...
Screaming Metal
Active Member
As everyone has said....E85 a no-go! Go with the most gas in the blend, As Mike said....the more alky they pump in, the more you gotta use to make the same power.
On alky race motors and Hi-perf. stuff....you have to fatten your mix up so much, most of the time, you gotta redo your whole fuel system. Especially, bigger lines and a bigger tank.
As one of our gents said...the E blend is hard as hell on a fuel system. NOT ALL CARBS CAN RUN THE MESS!!!! Back in the 70's when they tried the famous alky blending of the gas....there were alot of distorted needles and seats, and gaskets getting ate up. It was a complete mess up....some gaskets don't like the stuff....it'll melt or make some stuff brittle, too. Some plastics and rubbers don't like ethanol at all.
if your getting a notion of running the stuff...read and get informed, bigtime!
Just as they're messing with the fuel, you've now been informed of the removal of certain additives in the Motor oils. Yep, thats right folks....most all oils now have towhat I call 'goody' taken out of it, cause the government. 9/10's of those yahoos don't even cut thier own grass, much less checkthey're own oil, why should they be concerned that they'll ruin our engines? They could repower thier buckets every 6 months with thier salaries! Ha!
Its a fact, if you want to get good life outta your motor, you not only have to change your oil, and filter, you now gotta add a good additive now.
For the old die hards in the fuel dept., best to find yourself a small airport and go buy yourself a couple of drums of Green/blue av fuel, and mix in just a touch of oil, cause its so dry, then mix up your own fuel cocktails.
Seems this is gonna be the wave of the future.........
On alky race motors and Hi-perf. stuff....you have to fatten your mix up so much, most of the time, you gotta redo your whole fuel system. Especially, bigger lines and a bigger tank.
As one of our gents said...the E blend is hard as hell on a fuel system. NOT ALL CARBS CAN RUN THE MESS!!!! Back in the 70's when they tried the famous alky blending of the gas....there were alot of distorted needles and seats, and gaskets getting ate up. It was a complete mess up....some gaskets don't like the stuff....it'll melt or make some stuff brittle, too. Some plastics and rubbers don't like ethanol at all.
if your getting a notion of running the stuff...read and get informed, bigtime!
Just as they're messing with the fuel, you've now been informed of the removal of certain additives in the Motor oils. Yep, thats right folks....most all oils now have towhat I call 'goody' taken out of it, cause the government. 9/10's of those yahoos don't even cut thier own grass, much less checkthey're own oil, why should they be concerned that they'll ruin our engines? They could repower thier buckets every 6 months with thier salaries! Ha!
Its a fact, if you want to get good life outta your motor, you not only have to change your oil, and filter, you now gotta add a good additive now.
For the old die hards in the fuel dept., best to find yourself a small airport and go buy yourself a couple of drums of Green/blue av fuel, and mix in just a touch of oil, cause its so dry, then mix up your own fuel cocktails.
Seems this is gonna be the wave of the future.........
Screaming Metal
Active Member
Oh, one other thing....Ethanol will disguise bad gas to a certain extent, as the alchol will absorb some water. Whenever you add the stuff to a tank of good running fuel and you start having a miss and stumble, pops and such, either add a little alchol to the brew, or pump that mess down some and add some good fuel.
It happens to me so much, I have a filtering system setup for cleaning that mess up. I have a 5 gallon bucket mounted on a piece on pipe about 5 foot in the air, fitting in the bottom of it, then a circle plumed in with a spin-on of 20 micron filter, next loop down a spin-on water absorber, next loop down, a 10 micron....into a bucket at the bottom with a 12 volt electric fuel pump with its own self contained battery, plumbed up. This whole system is mounted on wheels so I can move it around the shop.
I pour the stuff in the top, give it about 10 minutes, then I start the pump and start adding fuel directly to the tank. I also have a rig, almost the same, to do the diesel in my truck. Better to have your fuel too clean than too dirty....carbs and IP's are expensive. I'd rather put my extra money into good bearings for the blower...
It happens to me so much, I have a filtering system setup for cleaning that mess up. I have a 5 gallon bucket mounted on a piece on pipe about 5 foot in the air, fitting in the bottom of it, then a circle plumed in with a spin-on of 20 micron filter, next loop down a spin-on water absorber, next loop down, a 10 micron....into a bucket at the bottom with a 12 volt electric fuel pump with its own self contained battery, plumbed up. This whole system is mounted on wheels so I can move it around the shop.
I pour the stuff in the top, give it about 10 minutes, then I start the pump and start adding fuel directly to the tank. I also have a rig, almost the same, to do the diesel in my truck. Better to have your fuel too clean than too dirty....carbs and IP's are expensive. I'd rather put my extra money into good bearings for the blower...
Screaming Metal
Active Member
Yes, Rons Right! E anything, as far as I've seen, trashes carbs, fuellines, pumps and the seals in these components.
I was tuning a custoners motor at a track recently, he walked up, looking across his 8-71 blown Hemi, I had the bowls off the carbs and I had my Carb toolboxs sitting on a cart next to me....he asked what size jets we going to. I just looked over the top of my spec.'s and looked at him, told him not to worry.
We made a couple of passes and he was really excited, said it ran alot better and made tons more power. He asked me agian, what size jets. I handed him one, he looked at it, 'hell, be better off just unscrewing them and leaving the holes open! :jawdrop: '
I left a bag of 10 assorted sizes with his wrenchmiester....that alcohol makes the inside of the bowls into a white powderery crap thats neary impossible to clean. I use one on those small handheld spot sandblasters with baking soda to clean them at the track. Dawm it kicks up a white cloud....everybody wants to run over and see what I'm doing. I throw a couple of large towels and covers over everything just so I can keep the stuff thick :jester: between races....everyones wondering what kinda illegal voodoo is going on over there.... :jester:
Like Mike and Ron said....tension gets so high you can cut it with a knife!
Ha!
I was tuning a custoners motor at a track recently, he walked up, looking across his 8-71 blown Hemi, I had the bowls off the carbs and I had my Carb toolboxs sitting on a cart next to me....he asked what size jets we going to. I just looked over the top of my spec.'s and looked at him, told him not to worry.
We made a couple of passes and he was really excited, said it ran alot better and made tons more power. He asked me agian, what size jets. I handed him one, he looked at it, 'hell, be better off just unscrewing them and leaving the holes open! :jawdrop: '
I left a bag of 10 assorted sizes with his wrenchmiester....that alcohol makes the inside of the bowls into a white powderery crap thats neary impossible to clean. I use one on those small handheld spot sandblasters with baking soda to clean them at the track. Dawm it kicks up a white cloud....everybody wants to run over and see what I'm doing. I throw a couple of large towels and covers over everything just so I can keep the stuff thick :jester: between races....everyones wondering what kinda illegal voodoo is going on over there.... :jester:
Like Mike and Ron said....tension gets so high you can cut it with a knife!
Ha!
Mike
Well-Known Member
Yeppers, I still have some .143 orifice jets around here from when the boss was still running I.H.R.A. Pro Stock.
As for pulling the jets clear out, I don't know anyone that would ever attempt that move.
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