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Thanks to Jerry Keifer

Hotrod46

Hotrod46

Member
Recently there was a thread about front end bounce where Jerry Keifer suggested toe-out to cure a bounce. Actually it was an old thread that was revived.

I have had a bounce issue since I built my car. Over the years I managed to get it to liveable levels by changing tires and making sure the tires were well balanced. It still crept in around 50-55 mph. Didn't do it all the time, but often enough to be annoying. Was rock solid everywhere else.

I had 1/8" toe-in and changed it to 1/8" toe-out and it's cured!!! We put almost 300 miles on it this weekend on a variety of roads and no bounce.

Thanks Jerry.

Mike
 
Hotrod46 said:
Recently there was a thread about front end bounce where Jerry Keifer suggested toe-out to cure a bounce. Actually it was an old thread that was revived.

I have had a bounce issue since I built my car. Over the years I managed to get it to liveable levels by changing tires and making sure the tires were well balanced. It still crept in around 50-55 mph. Didn't do it all the time, but often enough to be annoying. Was rock solid everywhere else.

Had the same problem at one time but when I did the toe out thing I got extra wear on the tires, also had scrubbing when I made turns could always hear the tires skid. Finally got it cured with Hyd. shocks and adjusting the hair pins to about 6 deg. Ended with a tiny bit of wobble at around 30 - 35 mph, annoying around town but this was taken care of with a damper from So-Cal.

I had 1/8" toe-in and changed it to 1/8" toe-out and it's cured!!! We put almost 300 miles on it this weekend on a variety of roads and no bounce.

Thanks Jerry.

Mike
Click to expand...
 
Toe-out ??That is really a new idea. Iv always heard that because buckets are so light that they SHOULD run more toe-in than the normal 1/16" most other cars run.
 
butch27 said:
Toe-out ??That is really a new idea. Iv always heard that because buckets are so light that they SHOULD run more toe-in than the normal 1/16" most other cars run.
Click to expand...
Actually, Jerry said that if the tie rod was behind the axle they start with toe-out. If it was in front they start with toe-in. Thought I would try it since it was easy to do.

CCR has built a LOT of cars, so I figured I would listen to the voice of experience. Glad I did.

I didn't have a death wobble as Lee did. Mine was a bounce that jumped from side to side, probably due to gyroscopic precession. One wheel bounced and upset the gyroscope of the other wheel. You could drive through it; get over the 50-55 mph range and it settled out.

I thought it was because my shock setup wasn't as effective as it should have been. Turns out the shocks were fine; my alignment was off and I lived with it for almost 14,000 miles.

Mike
 
So does the drunken cockroach have death wobble, wheel bounce or does it just have a mind iof its own when driving around town?
 
I tried toe in, toe out, zero toe, and then the steering stabilizer, new king pins and bushings. Nothing helped. It's getting too cold now so I'll be waiting until next year and then will try more caster. I have the caster set to about 5 degrees positive (leaning back).
I've had the bucket for more than 32 years. It seems to be worse than years ago. Someone mentioned tires. Maybe next spring I will try a new set of front tires and see what happens.
 
With toe out how does this effect tire wear?
 
Neshkoro said:
I tried toe in, toe out, zero toe, and then the steering stabilizer, new king pins and bushings. Nothing helped. It's getting too cold now so I'll be waiting until next year and then will try more caster. I have the caster set to about 5 degrees positive (leaning back).
I've had the bucket for more than 32 years. It seems to be worse than years ago. Someone mentioned tires. Maybe next spring I will try a new set of front tires and see what happens.
Click to expand...
 
I have had my bucket for years ,never drove good, had a mind of its own. Finally put a panhard bar on the front[ i have a vega box ] , really helped. I had toe in, to start. I got some of my wrenchs out & went for a drive. Kept adjesting toe in & toe out, drive a couple miles & stop & adjest, till it drove good. Checked when I got back to town. It has 1/8''+ toe out. Seems to drive good.Going to leave it alone..
 
Neshkoro said:
Someone mentioned tires. Maybe next spring I will try a new set of front tires and see what happens.
Click to expand...

I did find that my tires would get a flat spot sitting for months at a time during the winter.
Played heck with the balance and bounce. May be one reason for your's to get worse over time. I've decided to start jacking the front of mine up while it's in storage. Just a thought.

Mike
 
putz said:
With toe out how does this effect tire wear?
Click to expand...

I can only guess that they will wear quicker on the inside. May also cause some cupping type wear, but since it seems to have cured the problem, I'm willing to live with it.

Mike
 
They sound like good ideas. Since I've already tried the toe in/ toe out, panhard rod and steering damper, I'm going for the wheels and tires in the spring. I'll see what happens.
 
HR46 Touched on a great point! IF, you have been fighting the death wobble for say several thousand miles, side to side, bouncing, etc, this will induce a pattern onto your tread or outter circumference of your tires.
I know its expensive, but after you adjust it out, go and have things rebalanced, your tires will last longer.
Once you get that pattern established on those tires, you will have to live with it sometimes to a slight degree. When things are straight up straight.....a heavy duty steering stabilizer helps alot.
 
I still say that if everything is absolutely correct, a steering stabilizer is not needed. It is only putting a "band aid" on a problem and that holds true for tires being a problem also. IMHO

Jim
 
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