Typical oil pan.

[one finger john]

O.K., I suppose that we all agree that the lowest point on an engine/trans assembly is not the pan but the flywheel or flywheel cover. Since the pan really does protect the flywheel from under car contact, how much "sump" is needed in a typical wet sump oil pan? Would a custom made pan be of any advantage (like a sprint car pan, I know they are dry sump, although there are some sprint car classes that mandate wet sumps) that had more capacity up front. How much capacity does the rear "well" have to have to supply the typical small block Chev?

Just curious, John

 

[Mike]

How much capacity does the rear "well" have to have to supply the typical small block Chev?

There are too many variables to consider in a question like this. Bearing clearances, rod side clearances, average RPM range, oil pump design, etc.

If you are talking about a motor that may only see 7,000 RPM once or twice in it's lifetime, that has all the clearances checked (AND corrected) and is using a standard oil pump, it will likely live just fine with a stock oil pan. On the other hand, if it's a trick-of-the-week motor, ready to run at 7,500 all day long, with center drain back openings plugged to keep oil off the rotating assembly, with wider clearances and a high-volume oil pump, you're going to need to add a couple quarts of capacity.

The average hot-rodder gets caught in a trap. He knows oil is good for his motor. And if some is good, more is better, right? So he figures he will use a high-volume oil pump. That's all well and good, as long as he remembers he needs to add more oil volume to the sump, if he's going to be pumping more volume. And the higher the RPM level, the more oil a pump will be moving.

The secret to oil pan design is to develop something that will get oil away from the rotating assembly (using crank scrapers), keep it away from the rotating assembly (using a windage tray), get it into the sump area (with trap doors) and keep it in the sump area (with baffles). Once you accomplish all that, then you can start looking at how to make more power with the design, by moving things around to make them more efficient. Then it's time to find a way to shoehorn all of that into a given chassis.

It's not seat-of-your-pants, street-driven horsepower, but there is actually horsepower to be found in pan designs. I can't name names or be real definitive about the changes, but I know one pan manufacturer was making some changes for a very-well respected NHRA Pro Stock driver and found a surprising amount of power by merely changing the bend radius at the top of the side pouch by 0.125". It helped the scrapers work more efficiently and it made power.

For all the hydraulic lifter/roller-tip rocker crowd, I would darn sure be fitting a crank scraper and installing a windage tray before I ever spent the dosh on a set of roller-tip rocker arms. Those two pieces of tin will make horsepower, instead of just wasting your hard-earned money. It takes time to properly fit a scraper, but there is a definite upside to the work involved.

 

[Screaming Metal]

There are too many variables to consider in a question like this. Bearing clearances, rod side clearances, average RPM range, oil pump design, etc.

If you are talking about a motor that may only see 7,000 RPM once or twice in it's lifetime, that has all the clearances checked (AND corrected) and is using a standard oil pump, it will likely live just fine with a stock oil pan. On the other hand, if it's a trick-of-the-week motor, ready to run at 7,500 all day long, with center drain back openings plugged to keep oil off the rotating assembly, with wider clearances and a high-volume oil pump, you're going to need to add a couple quarts of capacity.

The average hot-rodder gets caught in a trap. He knows oil is good for his motor. And if some is good, more is better, right? So he figures he will use a high-volume oil pump. That's all well and good, as long as he remembers he needs to add more oil volume to the sump, if he's going to be pumping more volume. And the higher the RPM level, the more oil a pump will be moving.

The secret to oil pan design is to develop something that will get oil away from the rotating assembly (using crank scrapers), keep it away from the rotating assembly (using a windage tray), get it into the sump area (with trap doors) and keep it in the sump area (with baffles). Once you accomplish all that, then you can start looking at how to make more power with the design, by moving things around to make them more efficient. Then it's time to find a way to shoehorn all of that into a given chassis.

It's not seat-of-your-pants, street-driven horsepower, but there is actually horsepower to be found in pan designs. I can't name names or be real definitive about the changes, but I know one pan manufacturer was making some changes for a very-well respected NHRA Pro Stock driver and found a surprising amount of power by merely changing the bend radius at the top of the side pouch by 0.125". It helped the scrapers work more efficiently and it made power.

For all the hydraulic lifter/roller-tip rocker crowd, I would darn sure be fitting a crank scraper and installing a windage tray before I ever spent the dosh on a set of roller-tip rocker arms. Those two pieces of tin will make horsepower, instead of just wasting your hard-earned money. It takes time to properly fit a scraper, but there is a definite upside to the work involved.

Mike is 100% right! You can pickup horses with the sheetmetal, the pan the windage tray and all. You can pickup a few with pulleys and such. Theres alot of free horses to be picked up doing away with parasitic losses. Camshaft walk causes loss also, along with getting the correct endplay on your dist. shaft. IF, your gonna do one, ALSO, do the other! All these typa things affect your timing, which is directly linked to horsepower.

Roller Rockers keep the side load off your valvestems that stock rockers don't do. Roller rockers are for the person that wants their expensive 'good' heads to live a long time on the street, or for the person wanting to cut down on drag and wear.

You'd be suprised on the motor stand, building a motor with over .750 lift, you gotta have sometimes over 600 to 700 lbs. of spring pressure to keep the lifter on the camlobe. The borderlne between the flat-tappet cam and the roller-cam....you can feel a big difference in the motor turning over with the aid of those rollers being on the bottom of those lifters! And thats just with the torque wrench on the end of the crankshaft!