A new operating system

[Mike]

As many of you know, I'm close to the point where you can't walk in any direction around here without bumping into another computer. Actually, I just put two ancient PCs to rest, but there are still 4 up and running. The desk I am sitting at has a 32 bit PC and a 64 bit PC running on it. Right around the corner is another desk with an iMac running on it. And somewhere, there is a laptop floating around in the great room, for when I want to kick my feet up and work.

Again, as many of you know, I am not a fan of Microsoft Windows or Apple OS X. About 3 years ago, I decided to try a Linux distribution and set up Ubuntu Linux Feisty Fawn on one PC. I was stunned, because Ubuntu was considerably faster than Windows XP. I was running Ubuntu within Windows which isn't the most optimal method, but it let me get used to using Linux, without actually committing to it full-time. The install was really very easy, as I used a script called Windows UBuntu Installer, or WUBI for short. You install WUBI in Windows, run it and it installs all the necessary components to set up a dual-boot installation of Ubuntu. When you start the computer, a script called GRUB (Grand UNified Bootloader) asks if you want to run Windows or Ubuntu.

A few months later, Ubuntu released Gutsy Gibbon, so I removed my WUBI install and set up a true dual-boot. This gave me the ability to set up a /home partition on my hard drive, so I could always keep my data and not have to copy it off, overwrite it and then restore it.

I used Ubuntu for a couple of years and then decided to look for something better. Ubuntu Linux is a fork of Debian Linux, so it comes from a very good bloodline, already. But I found Linux Mint, which is a fork of Ubuntu. The Mint developers say from freedom came elegance and they were right. Mint has a very smooth and elegant feel to it. There are others that might be a bit better, but Mint looks and feels a lot like Windows, so it's easy for Windows users to get used to it.

I have one PC dual booting Windows XP and Mint 9, another PC dual boots Windows 7 and Mint 9, the laptop dual boots Windows 7 and Mint 9 and the iMac is dual booting OS X Snow Leopard and Ubuntu Lucid Lynx. Or I should say that how it 'was'. The developers at Linux Mint were developing a fork of Ubuntu, which is a fork of Debian and so they were always somewhat limited as to what their release schedules were like. They would have to wait for Ubuntu to be upgraded, so they could upgrade Mint. Until two days ago, when they released a brand new Mint distribution, called LMDE, short for Linux Mint Debian Edition. There is no longer a middle-man between Debian and Mint.

To date, it is only available as a 32 bit installation, but a 64 bit version is in the works. But rest assured, my 32 bit machine is happily running LMDE.

I've recommended Linux time and again, but as things improve, I'm talking even louder. Gone are the days of using Linux through a command line interface, the Linux desktop distros now all come with graphical user interfaces that are at least as nice as the Windows interface.

And the entire Linux concept is to keep everything free and open source.

Windows 7 Home Premium Edition - $99.00
Linux Mint LMDE - FREE
Microsoft Office 2010 home and Business Edition - $220.00
OpenOffice for Linux - FREE
Photoshop CS5 - $200.00
The Gimp - FREE

People have a lot of myths about Linux. One is that it is hard to install. Absolutely not true. I installed LMDE in under 10 minutes, last evening. It needed some updates that took about an hour to download and self-install, whilst I used the computer for other tasks. A complete, fresh install might take you 30 minutes. When was the last time you installed Windows of any variety? 3-4 hours is common and it can run even longer than that. If you are looking for ease of installation, go for Linux Mint, Ubuntu, Fedora or openSUSE.

Linux is not just for computer experts. If you want to open a program, you click on it, same as you would in Windows or OS X.

If it's free, it must be pirated is another claim that is false. It is free because thousands of people, all over the world donate a bit of their own time to upgrade scripts and improve things. Since there is no development cost, why should there be a price tag?

But if there is no official company, how can there be any support? I just checked the Ubuntu support forums and there are currently 13,512 users online. There are 9,258,399 posts on their forums. If you have a support question, dollars to doughnuts it has already been asked.

But nothing is compatible with Windows. Well, with Debian Linux, you have over 25,000 free programs available to you. No trips to the store to pay a couple hundred dollars to buy Office, you just enter the software manager in the operating system and tell it to install OpenOffice, for free. And OpenOffice can open, edit and save Office documents. And then you wait until the download and install are complete, you do nothing. And for hundreds of Windows programs you can't live without, there is WINE, a WINdows Emulator that will allow you to run the program within Linux.

If it's free, it can't be secure. Actually, quite the opposite is true. If you're running Windows, how many open, public-facing ports do you have open? You don't know, do you? Truth be known, most of the software designed to manage Windows ports can't tell you, either. Want to know how many ports my Linux box has open? Zero. If Linux needs to open a port, it closes it when it is finished. Much tidier and completely safer than Windows, isn't it? What virus software do you run on your Windows computer? I run zero on my Linux boxes. All those .exe files you keep getting in your e-mail, that infect your machines? Linux never auto-runs anything, just because it leads to problems like the ones you experience with Windows. A .exe file won't even run in Linux. No firewall, no virus scans, no drive de-fragging, no hassles and no worries. And you're running Windows because...?

I hope some of you will start taking a harder look at Linux. When something is this stable and this secure, nothing but good can come from more people running it. Go to the Linux Mint site, download the LMDE .iso file, burn it to a DVD and then re-boot your machine from the DVD drive. You'll be able to get a feel for Linux without installing anything, as the operating system will run (slowly, mind) from the DVD. If you like it, it is deadly easy to install as a dual-boot, or you can install it over the top of Windows entirely, your choice.

If anyone is interested, I will make myself available to answer any questions or to walk you through an install. I'm that confident you'll appreciate Linux. And you'll thank me for giving you a better computer tool to use.

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[benT]

Uhh... you lost me at computer. :yuk:

Serously, it sounds like a great operating system. After dealing with Windows crashing and viruses on my PC this last year, I'm ready for a change. My only issue is running the windows based programs like Photoshop, AutoCad, and Revit. Sounds like there is a workaround. Maybe since I need to rework my OS on my desktop pc again, I'll try it. I'm sure i will need some assistance, so might be taking you up on your offer

 

[BLUEGRASST]

I have an old laptop that I want to try this on, but I'm gonna need lotsa help and courage to do it Thanks for the info.

 

[409T]

I have to agree with everything you said about Linux. I'm running Ubuntu 10.04 and it just plain works. Not bad for FREE!!

 

[fordsbyjay]

I have always wondered about Linux but we used it at work and I didn't really find it anymore reliable. But, this was all in house software specific to our tools and nothing else. I found if you didn't reload it every several months it crashed more often then windows. Obviously we didn't have 15000 programmers to work the bugs out though. My biggest issue has been not wanting to learn a new computer software after spending all this time with windows. Call me lazy but I hate when microsoft makes new versions of windows and I have to figure out how to make their crap work. Like right now I can't get my daughters two laptops (vista and windows7) print and communicate with all the other XP computers on my home network. They can't even find my wireless network printer.

 

[409T]

Like right now I can't get my daughters two laptops (vista and windows7) print and communicate with all the other XP computers on my home network. They can't even find my wireless network printer.

We have 4 people with laptops or desktop computers in our family, and used to have them all networked under XP. Now my wife has XP, my two daughters each have Vista, and I have Win 7, and although I suppose it is possible to regain all the networking that we once had, I haven't been able to figure it out and finally quit trying. Out of curiosity I just now tried to connect to one of the wireless laptops running Vista from my desktop computer running Ubuntu. It connected instantly. I had to specify the IP address of the other computer rather than the computer name, but that was all. Too easy.

Adding an other operating system to your Windows computer is just like building a T-bucket. Initially you don't abandon your daily driver (Windows) because you still need it to get around. After working on the T (Ubuntu, Mint, etc.) for awhile it becomes usable and you find yourself driving it more and more, your daily driver less and less. Just my .02.

 

[Gerry]

I have run Win in various issues since it came out. I used to work in sales & marketing where every studio, print shop etc ran Apple and no one would take a Win file. thats all changed .

This is a bit like the Belts, Bags and Helmet thing, you are ALWAYS going to get different views, promoters and downers. Its know that Win Millenium and Vista was a load of cr*p. I have to say the Win 7 has never let me down, never crashed and never been a problem, but I am careful which sites I visit and keep the programs on my LT to the minimum. I have made a concession with my browser - I use Firefox which leaves Explorer standing. I am NOT a fan of Bill Gates and his preditory approach to software, but everyone is now the same. Whats free today WILL cost money in the future. Every thing and one goes this way to survive.

I had very early dealings with Linux (may years ago) and that put me off. I am now too far gone and such an old Fa*t that any change is going to be a major learning curve and to be honest I dont have the patients, time or energy.
You are certainly correct with the Linux thing. Its probaly neater, faster and less hassle than the 'old fasion' Windows. Its a bit like my other half, there are younger models out there, and the casings are very pretty, but I after talking to them for a while I dont want them.

Dont get me wrong, you have always steered things in the RIGHT direction, and we have benefitted for it, but I will stick with what i know and am comfortable with.

I still use my cell phone to make calls. Never use it to get on the web or tell some distant person I have just had lunch. Life seems to be so lack luster now that just the fact you have visited a Mall is a good reason to tell other people.
Hold on this is getting way too deep. So i will stop

Gerry

 

[Mike]

I have to agree with everything you said about Linux. I'm running Ubuntu 10.04 and it just plain works. Not bad for FREE!!

I always had good experiences with Ubuntu, but was looking for something a bit faster and smoother. Mint definitely has both qualifications covered.

I always chuckle when Microsoft releases a new version of Windows and there's little hope of running it on an older box. If you can get it installed, it runs like a pig. With Linux, there's always a distro that will run on virtually any computer and it will run faster than Windows. And subsequent releases will often bring even more speed.

The T-Bucket analogy is a pretty good one. Linux is a different ride than Windows. You customize it to do what you want and then enjoy the drive. Don't like a GNOME desktop environment? Set it up in KDE, instead. It doesn't require a trip to the nearest computer shop, nor does it require a credit card to download. No license keys to type in and no products to register, you just install it and go.

Whilst typing this, I saw a tweet announcing the release of Tiny Core Linux 3.1. To install a 32 bit version of Windows 7, you need at least a 1GHz processor, at least 1 GB of RAM and 16 GB of hard drive space. Tiny Core, on the other hand, requires all of 11 MB of storage, will run with 48 MB of RAM and runs fine on a 486 processor (if you can still find one, that is). Micro Core Linux will run with 36 MB of RAM!

I just checked and the server this site runs on (CentOS Linux) has been up for 123 days. 19 hours, 36 minutes. The last time it was down was because of a faulty power strip in the cage, not because of a software issue. Since installing the Debian Edition of Mint on this box, I have been getting ongoing updates, as things are being refined. Not once have I seen a message requiring me to reboot to take advantage of the updates. I just keep using the computer and it tells me when the updates are installed. Let's see a Windows box match that. :winkn:

 

[Gerry]

Mike
You like yours and I like mine.
Ever tried telling a Audi RS4 owner that a bucket is better. I rest my case
Gerry

PS for the guys who are not familiar with the RS4 its an Audi staion wagon with 425 BHP, and at the touch of a button on the consul boosts to 0ver 500 BHP. Its mean and has the equipment to put it down. I know in have ridden one.

 

[Keeper]

I have been using MS stuff since the DOS days, Then to Windows 3.11, NT, 95, 98, 2000, XP, (I skipped Vista as I knew it was crap) and now Windows 7. I was a gamer, gamers did not run Linux as most games didn't work in Linux, sure some could be persuaded to run via WINE, but mostly no.

In the late 1990's I was into Linux, UNIX but mostly FreeBSD as we used it for all our servers for the ISP I was working with at the time. I stuck with BSD as at the time there were about 50 flavors of Linux, all doing different things with the Kernal some being good distros and some being bloated crap. FreeBSD stayed the same, and "ports" was just plain brilliant. Sadly I have fallen off the BSD wagon as no one up here uses (or has even heard of it) and all our office systems are all Microsoft which we get for next to nothing (we are a charity I get full copies of Win 7 Enterprise for $8)

Anyway while I cannot agree with all of MS's practices, they do take care of the charity and non-profit orgs.

If you really want to try out linux (or FreeBSD for that matter) without having to reformat, reload, or lose your Windows install. Grab a couple of the "Run for CD" distros.

FreeBSD can be had here - just download, burn to a CD and reboot - http://www.freesbie.org/

Sadly I cannot remember any LiveCD linux distros off the top of my head. Someone can chime in here and help I am sure.

If anything at least give one a shot, you may like it, you may not. Personally, I will stick with Windows, I need to as its my job to support.

 

[Mike]

Most distros offer a LiveCD. I have several laying here on my desk. Ubuntu, Linux Mint, MEPIS, openSUSE, Mandriva, PCLinuxOS, Fedora, etc.

The spreads are huge, but Mint is now the 4th most popular operating system out there. Windows, OS X and Ubuntu are ahead of it. Over the last 7 days, the rolling average at DistroWatch showed Mint to be the most popular Linux distro, as of noon yesterday. I'm sure Canonical's Ubuntu will edge back to the top, but how many distros are there that have the kind of financial backing that Shuttleworth provides Ubuntu? I'm sure Mint's Clem LeFebvre and Ike Doherty cannot afford to buy themselves a ride to the Space Station for a week or two.

Gerry, I will say Windows 7 is a whole lot better than anything Microsoft released before it. The company I'm working for has a piece of proprietary software that requires me to run Windows. That box is a nearly-new Core i7 processor, running at 2.80 GHz, with 8 gig of RAM. Sitting right alongside it is an old Core 2 box, running at 1.86 GHz with 1 gig of RAM and running on Linux Mint Debian Edition. And the Linux box runs circles around the Win 7 box, all day, every day. Keeper will understand the sentiment on both sides of the table, but when I downloaded the software I need for my work (it's a sidebar that runs in Firefox), I asked if there was any hope it would run on a Linux version of Firefox. The reply? "Oh. You're one of those Linux people." Not only will it not run in Linux Firefox, I had to downgrade my Windows Firefox back to 3.6.8, to use it, as it won't run in Firefox 4 either. Sheesh, I live on the bleeding edge and have to go back to the Dark Ages in order to work for an IT company?!?

I'm not too concerned with my Windows box getting cracked, as I'm pretty familiar with what it takes to keep it safe. But every day, I run CCLeaner and Defragglr, along with the system firewall and anti-virus. The Linux boxes are all running just as the system was installed, no firewall scripts, no anti-virus scripts, no malware removal scripts and no defragging. And the security on the Linux boxes is better than this Win 7 box. With a bit of theme styling, I can make my Linux boxes look exactly like Windows, so much so that most users would never know the difference, unless they noticed the speed.

And that's why I recommend Linux and also why I'm offering to help people convert. Most people don't realize how vulnerable a Windows box can be, when it's on a network. They buy a whiz-bang anti-virus they don't know how to configure and forget to run it as often as they should and think they're safe. And that's a shame, because most people would have fewer problems, if they just knew what they were letting themselves in for. That's one of the reasons I am "one of those Linux people." :winkin: There are different ways to skin cats and what works for some doesn't work for others.

 

[T-Odd]

Alright Mike get ready...

My old Dell laptop will have LMDE installed this weekend.

We installed Ubuntu on a couple of Macs here and my friend Ammar has it installed on an old IBM Thinkpad, but this will be our first Mint attempt.

Letcha knows how it goes if I can get drivers installed for everything.

 

[Corley]

Suggestion for the curious but cautious...

If you just want to get your feet wet without disturbing your current PC setup in any way, you could give Puppy Linux a try. First, download a program called unetbootin.exe, and run it on the PC. Using it, you can create a bootable USB memory stick (or CD) with any of the popular linux distros. Unetbootin knows of around 50 of them, or you can point it to any others you like. (Really, any .iso file you can find.) Run it, and it will download the distro and create the bootable USB stick or CD for you. Now boot up your PC from the CD or USB memory stick. Don't worry about puppy changing your hard disk, it runs entirely from ram.

Puppy will give you a taste of linux, in an easy almost spoon fed aproach. Then, if you like it, you can install it as a dual boot or replace windoz all together, right from within puppy. (I don't recommend that, because there are better versions of Linux than puppy, but for just having a look/feel of Linux, you can't beat Puppy.) As I mentioned, Puppy runs entirely out of ram, so it won't be messing with your hard disk unless you want it to, but it will allow you to get the feel of Linux... The screen just isn't that different than Windoz, but the operation is quite different.

I must say that I have been in the computer business since 1962 when I first joined IBM, and Linux has not been all that intuitive for me. Others, who started later on and spent more time with Unix have found it much easier to grasp. It's not that I can't figure stuff out with Linux, it's just that it takes a bit to figure it out and it seems "foreign'. I think it has to do with how you were introduced to this computer stuff...?... Or, maybe I'm just too darn old? I sure do like "free" though...

 

[Mike]

Alright Mike get ready...

My old Dell laptop will have LMDE installed this weekend.

We installed Ubuntu on a couple of Macs here and my friend Ammar has it installed on an old IBM Thinkpad, but this will be our first Mint attempt.

Letcha knows how it goes if I can get drivers installed for everything.

I installed LMDE 64 bit on my big box this morning. And everything works like a champ, with the exception of Adobe AIR. I've got the 32 bit libraries installed, trying to cajole Adobe AIR into playing nicely enough to allow a TweetDeck install. And it just keeps fighting me. Other than that, everything fell right into place and worked as it should. It had no problems with the video card, the sound card and even picked up my printer without any hints.

I've found Mint to be more user-friendly than Ubuntu. I like staying on the bleeding edge and would upgrade whenever there was anything new. With Ubuntu, it always meant hassling with something or another. Clam & Co. have done a much better job with Mint. I had Mint Julia 64 bit on this box and it was like silk. If Adobe would ever find a cure for their inverted cranial rectosis and stop trampling on 64 bit architecture, life would sure be great.

Corley, I've been using Linux for so long (Ubuntu 7.04/Feisty Fawn, released April '07) that I find myself stumbling about whilst using Windows. I think that's one of the reasons I never felt comfortable with OS X. All of my machines are dual-boot machines, but this one is the only one that ever uses anything other than Linux Mint or Ubuntu. My son's been loading music on his iPhone, so he's been using OS X. But if I sit down to use the machine, I boot it into Ubuntu Maverick. I always boot into Mint on my notebook, rather than Windows 7. My old PC still have XP on it, I think. I've not booted into XP in months. The company I am contracted to uses a piece of proprietary software that runs on Windows, so I run Windows 7 on this machine when I'm working. If I'm using the machine for anything other than work, I reboot into Mint. I've considered trying to run their software under WINE or in a virtual machine, but it's easier and faster to just reboot to whichever OS I need.

I will admit Windows 7 is a step in the right direction for Microsoft. But if I wanted to upgrade my old XP box to W7, I would end up with a machine stretched to the edge. Not to mention the toll I would have to pay to upgrade. As it is, I have a machine with more than enough resources to run LMDE and the price tag was right down my alley. LMDE is a rolling distribution, so it will always be as up to date as it can be and I'll never have to worry about upgrading to a newer version. I really should just wipe XP off the machine and give the drive entirely over to LMDE. But, like I said, it's loafing along as it is. I gave LMDE 100 GB of room and I'm only using 10.66 GB, so there's plenty of room to grow.

 

[CrAlt]

I jumped the Microsoft ship when Win95 came out. Been using linux or some other unix ever since. My 1st linux install was Slackware 3.0 in '96 or 97.. I download the tarball's on the T1 at school and installed them at home via 1.44meg floppies.. Over the years i jumped around between net/free/openBSD. Solaris, and a few diff linux distro's. I have Ubuntu 8.04 on my T20 laptop but on the desktops I run Mac's. OSX has made me super lazy with a nice gui on top of a real unix.I haven't had a need or want to run anything Mircrosoft related.. ever.

I just get annoyed when I have to use a friends PC and it takes 10 mins to do something that should take 5 seconds. Pops,annoying notices from the task bar.. spyware/virus slowing the machine to a crawl...


Somewhere I still have my original home server.. 386DX with 387copro and 16Megs or ram. Ran version of RedHat that i trimmed down to under 20 megs of disk space and it acted as a router for our dialup and then cablemodem in the house. I also ran a mail, dns, and web server off it.. until I got a nasty phone call from CableVision :wolf:

 

[Mike]

I bought my iMac after I had been dual-booting Ubuntu for about a year. I figured i was ready to get away from Windows, all the way. Well, I was ready to get away from Windows, but not at the expense of OS X applications software. Wow! I'm currently dual-booting Ubuntu 10.04 with Snow Leopard on that machine. The machine was well-designed and well-built and whilst running Ubuntu, I really couldn't ask for much more. Until I remember the price tag on the machine.

I recently purchased a Dell Inspiron 15R notebook machine. I made some custom configurations to the standard Dell build, by adding 1 GB of RAM and upgrading to a 500 GB HDD. As soon as I was done registering the machine and the copy of Win 7, I popped in a Linux Mint 9 Live CD and installed Mint as a dual-boot. Total cost of the machine, including the freight to get it here was $640.

I just visited the Apple Online Store and configured a 15" Macbook Pro with the same specs as my 15R. Total cost of that machine, with free freight? $1949.00. Laird, t'under and Jaysus, I could buy THREE of the Dells and still have $20 left in my pocket, for that price.

A 27" iMac with an i5 processor, 8 GB of RAM and a 1 TB HDD is $2249. My Dell Studio XPS8100 has a 23" monitor, but it also has an i7 processor, card readers and dual optical drives on it. Total price tag? $1284.

I admit, it's not nearly as attractive as that aluminum iMac. But I could almost buy a second system for what the iMac is worth.

I'm like you, I really have no desire to use Windows for anything. If I could get around using for my work, I certainly would. All the song and dance with running malware scrubbers every day and watching how much the AV/Firewall software slows everything down is a real PITA. <shrug> I re-boot into Windows each morning, get everything done I need to do, run the scrubbers and re-boot back into Linux, so I can enjoy the machine.

 

[T-Odd]

Well, it / I failed.

Can boot every computer I have using this DVD except the laptop I wanted to install it on, just sits there after showing the Mint boot screen.

My boss has the exact same laptop and installed Ubuntu with no issue. I wanted to install Mint just to compare the two Operating Systems side by side on identical boxes but I just can't get it to complete the boot process and get to the install screen like it does on every other computer.

Any idea what it could be?

Dell Vostro 1000, AMD Sempron processor with a gig of memory. I can get more HW info if you think you need it.

 

[409T]

Well, it / I failed.

Can boot every computer I have using this DVD except the laptop I wanted to install it on, just sits there after showing the Mint boot screen.

My boss has the exact same laptop and installed Ubuntu with no issue. I wanted to install Mint just to compare the two Operating Systems side by side on identical boxes but I just can't get it to complete the boot process and get to the install screen like it does on every other computer.

Any idea what it could be?

Dell Vostro 1000, AMD Sempron processor with a gig of memory. I can get more HW info if you think you need it.

I just downloaded LMDE 32 bit to put on an extra hard drive to give it a try, and at first had the same problem that you did. Started to boot but would hang somewhere in the middle. I tossed the DVD and downloaded the .iso file for CDROM instead and burned that to a disk. The CDROM doesn't have enough room to load all the files that the DVD can, so you get a stripped down version. It loaded just fine, and after the program was running asked if I wanted to upgrade to the full DVD version. I clicked yes and it went to the repository and copied and installed all the extra files that would have been included on the DVD.

Jeff

 

[Mike]

Well, it / I failed.

Hmmm, I can't see why that would happen. With one exception, that is.

Was it a 32 bit or a 64 bit download? If it was 32 bit, when did you download it? Clem just re-spun the 32 bit .iso, as some people were experiencing some problems with the earlier release. The re-spin was made available yesterday (2 January 2010). If you were trying a 32 bit install, you might grab the new .iso and burn that image.

The more I read your post, the more certain I am that this was the issue. Did you try booting the machine from the DVD, into the Live environment?

If it continues to fight you, download the Mint 10 "Julia" Live CD .iso. Julia is actually a downstream fork of Ubuntu, but you will be amazed at how much better it is. LMDE is just a immediate fork of Debian, cutting Ubuntu out of the stream. Of course, the RDU (Real Debian Users) will tell you how inferior LMDE is, but I'm not seeing it on either of my installs.

 

[Corley]

Mike,

Thanks for the LMDE recommendation, I tired it and I love it! At least as fully functional as XP or Vista, and it's very fast. The GUI is the best I've seen for Linux yet. I loaded it onto 3 machines without any issues (live DVD and live USB stick), but the machine that I would really like to put it on the hard disk is a no-go as it hangs during boot up. Next I guess I'll try the CD version for that one. I really love that it finds drivers for all my weird hardware and installs everything automatically. One old HP machine that I put it on takes a miracle to get XP working with all the driver issues, but LMDE came right up without any issues at all and everything works... (All these machines are 32 bit, basically junkers, that may get a second life and become useful again with LMDE since it is so resource thrifty and speedy.)

Anyway, thanks again for the recommendation, I'v been awaiting the day when I could say goodbye to MS and Bill G. forever...
Corley

PS Google Chrome OS for PC is just plain and simple a stupid idea! My Epic driod phone is more useful!