engine documentation

[smokeyco75]

I'm not sure where to post this so I put it here. As some of you may know I recently purchased a 454 chevy for my T build. The problem is I have no documentation to present on it when it comes time to get a title. Has anyone had to deal with this situation when titling your ho\rod and if so how did you get around it? I am in florida if that helps any. My first thought is to get a notarized bill of sale but I bought it from a guy on craigslist. Ideas?

 

[EX JUNK]

I had no problem with that here in Oviedo. I was never asked for a bill of sale or anything on my motor or trans or anything. I got forms from the DMV and had a cop verify that the numbers on my frame were correct for the title that I had from a '25 T that I'd bought at a swap meet many years ago as junk.

Jim

 

[Zandoz]

I'm in the same boat...I got my motor and transmission on ebay years ago. I tried a while back to contact the guy through ebay, and got no response. I have a feeling I'll end up having to buy another engine and trans to get the documentation Kentucky requires <sigh>

 

[Screaming Metal]

I'm in the same boat...I got my motor and transmission on ebay years ago. I tried a while back to contact the guy through ebay, and got no response. I have a feeling I'll end up having to buy another engine and trans to get the documentation Kentucky requires <sigh>

All you have to do in that case is give your payment info thru ebay and the info thereof. And let them do their job. And you can supply the numbers off the block and transmission.
Take all your info to a JP or a notary....get that official seal, and things will be cool.
I've had to do this crap about 100 times in my career....they just want their fraking Tax Money. And to make sure you didn't steal it.
You know what, if someones good enough to steal a car out from under me, and strip it down before I catch them, more power too their asses. I wouldn't want the damn motor cause I would've already collected the ins. on it.
The cops wanna go crawl thru papers instead of going out and catching the assholes in the process that origionally caused the Fraking problem.
I'm getting wound up and I apologize to everyone for that.

Just get a blank bill of sale, give all your purchase info, give the Notary and/or Justice of the Peace some money, send the info off, and you'll have papers on said stuff. Done Deal.

 

[Zandoz]

All you have to do in that case is give your payment info thru ebay and the info thereof. And let them do their job. And you can supply the numbers off the block and transmission.
Take all your info to a JP or a notary....get that official seal, and things will be cool.
I've had to do this crap about 100 times in my career....they just want their fraking Tax Money. And to make sure you didn't steal it.
You know what, if someones good enough to steal a car out from under me, and strip it down before I catch them, more power too their asses. I wouldn't want the damn motor cause I would've already collected the ins. on it.
The cops wanna go crawl thru papers instead of going out and catching the assholes in the process that origionally caused the Fraking problem.
I'm getting wound up and I apologize to everyone for that.

Just get a blank bill of sale, give all your purchase info, give the Notary and/or Justice of the Peace some money, send the info off, and you'll have papers on said stuff. Done Deal.

I played around on ebay a week or so ago trying to get info on the sale...all I could find was the auction title, ebay item number, and the date. I think the sale is long enough ago that they do not have the details...or at least do not make it available. I still have to research paypal.

 

[T-Test]

SM is mostly correct. But, what if the engine and trans. were stolen. Then you can be charged with receiving stolen goods and the engine and trans. taken from you without getting your money back.
Here in N.C. you carry your bucket to DMV, don't drive it like some custom bike builders have done, and they check serial #s on engine and trans to see if they are stolen. They also would like you to have a title for the vehicle they came from, but not necessary. But if they aren't stolen, then you can get bonded for the engine and trans, here about $150.00 at an Insurance company. Along with all the other receipts and forms for the title, they will assign you a VIN and title after having 2 appraisals for what it is worth. Also here in N.C. the title will be for a CUSTOM VEHICLE, not an antique or 1923 Ford for it has a fiberglass body and custom frame, not original. You would want low appraisals for they tax you on the year you finished it, as right now today it would be a 2014 model Custom Ford 2 door, even though it doesn't have doors. Also here in N.C. they make you pay a highway/ fuel use tax which is high with it being a V8 engines and gasoline. Title, taxes and notary fees were over $1500.00 for mine in 2005 when it was finished. Never been on a trailer since, until Ocala Fla, in June as it was the first time the madame has been able to go with me anywhere since she retired. Age 74 and still able to get in without doors or steps.

Good luck on titling-- for every state is different--Would love to see if one of Spirits titles would pass mustard test here in N.C. or if anyone has, let me know. SEMA just won't get a foot hold here I don't think because of our Ins. commissioner or our laws/ or taxes.

 

[Screaming Metal]

And if you can't get papers on a motor/trans....or the car you bought to get these out of....just walk away from it. Its not worth the hassle.
If your building your car piece by piece, keep ALL THE RECEIPTS! If you get something, have a receipt or a piece of paper for it! Yea, its a bitch, its better to be safe than sorry....
If you built that frame, show where you bought the steel, take a few pics of it during the process. If you buy one thru RPM, Spirit, or Speedway or some of our other sponsors, they come with a MFG's statement of Origin, or a predetermined VIN # cause they have already been thru the legal channels....which is a definite plus.
I have seen whole cars built around bad paperwork, and their owners not able to drive them because they bought this or that, and didn't jump thru the right hoops....and the car sits in the barn or garage, because they can't get it titled, liscensed, and they can't sell it.
Before you do anything else, get that motor/trans paperwork done.
I can remember back when we were kids, we'd build motors, sometimes we'd swap them out with friends, and didn't have all this mess. There weren't alot of cars being stolen cause most folks were armed.
My, how things have changed, and not for the better....

 

[benT]

Similar to here in Indiana. You have to get a police officer to do an "inspection" and run the engine and trans numbers to see if they are stolen. In Indiana, you get a MVIN which is a VIN for an assembled vehicle. I'm keeping a spreadsheet of all the items purchased or donated and which we have already paid state sales tax on. This way we won't have to re-pay the tax on the locally purchased items.

 

[Zandoz]

I think before I spend any more time trying to get an invoice, I need to check the #s. There is no chance of getting title of the vehicle they came from...the vehicle is still on the road with the original order. The motor came from a speed shop that pulled it from a Camaro that they were doing a swap to a TPI V8.

Luckily I do not have much tied up in the engine and transmission if I have to scrap them

 

[Screaming Metal]

If you know what state and city this speed shop was in, you can probably get things straightened out fairly fast. Yes, have the #s run....I always do.

 

[Mike]

What everyone is overlooking is the location of the ID numbers on a Chevrolet. Once a Chevy block has been decked, the number goes away. Chances are a 454 has already seen at least one rebuild, which means the block may have already been decked. In that situation, there are no numbers to be found. If that is not the case, then I assume you will be rebuilding it, yourself, in order to know everything inside is right. Have the machine shop you are using deck the block, to square it up and kiss the original engine ID numbers good-bye. From that point forward, producing receipts and bills of sale are all that can be required. Stamp your initials and the date of the rebuild on that pad, if you like, then your local authorities can use that number for their own records.

 

[RPM]

If I remember right Smokeyco75 is a LEO, so checking Vin numbers should be easy for him. Getting one of his buddies to inspect and sign off should be easy to.

 

[benT]

Mike is right -
My buddy who is a IN State Trooper did mine and my Ford engine had one number left on it - not sure what it was for. He knew it would not turn up as anything. It was a wink, wink, nod...nod.

If you have to do a police inspection , I would encourage you to use a fired or a car-friendly cop. It will make it much easier!

 

[bobs66440]

Stamp your initials and the date of the rebuild on that pad, if you like, then your local authorities can use that number for their own records.

I'm not sure about other states, but that will definitely get your engine confiscated here in NY. Any tampering with the numbers is a no no, even if the original numbers were legitimately lost. A buddy of mine lost his engine that way. It didn't matter that it wasn't stolen. They confiscated it and sold it at auction. He tried to buy it back but got out-bid. If the numbers were ground off, you're better off leaving it that way...here anyway.

 

[Zandoz]

If you know what state and city this speed shop was in, you can probably get things straightened out fairly fast. Yes, have the #s run....I always do.

All I know is that it was in the middle of nowhere, south of Columbus OH. I've found nothing doing web searches, and no ebay activity for 2 years.

Mike is right -
My buddy who is a IN State Trooper did mine and my Ford engine had one number left on it - not sure what it was for. He knew it would not turn up as anything. It was a wink, wink, nod...nod.

If you have to do a police inspection , I would encourage you to use a fired or a car-friendly cop. It will make it much easier!

No problem there...the joke around here was that our wedding reception created a manpower shortage for the police department. My brother-in-law was chief of police. LOL

 

[Mike]

I'm not sure about other states, but that will definitely get your engine confiscated here in NY. Any tampering with the numbers is a no no, even if the original numbers were legitimately lost.

Which leads to one of the problems we have with questions of this nature. There is no, one law to govern all the states (thank Goodness). It's like the age-old problem of how a racer's truck and trailer is viewed by authorities, in each state. Some states consider them to be hobbyists' vehicles, whilst some states demand the driver be licensed for commercial. Some states use weight as the determining factor, some states use overall length as the determining factor. Some states will not give a racer a second glance, where some states want to impound everything, if is being operated on anything other than interstate and state highways.

When I was at the speed shop, we would purchase 350 Chevy engine cores, then go clear through them, offering them for sale as complete rebuilds. And they were complete rebuilds, they were all align-honed, bored, decked, rods resized, cranks ground, balanced, heads rebuilt, etc. The program was incredibly popular, and we even had a couple of Chevy dealers that were buying engines from us, rather than relying on the GM programs. We would average selling one of those engines about once every week.

But, as all the blocks lost their ID numbers in the decking process, we would stamp an incremental number on the same pad, so we could identify each engine, if ever there was a problem down the road. A customer could call with that number, and within minutes, I could have a build sheet in my hands, which told me everything from what the balancing bobweights weighed, to what bearing clearance was on any given rod. I can't count how many of those engines were used in various, local street rods, and there was never an issue with our own markings being used. As a matter of fact, our former police chief once said the smartest thing anyone could do with engine components was to make unique identification markings on them, keeping records on where and how each component was marked. That would narrow down avenues of investigation, if ever anything was stolen.

@Zandoz, if your brother-in-law was chief of police, then he is the person to answer your questions, because who could be more familiar with your local laws?

 

[Mr T Bucket]

Every guy/gal on here should find out the laws in their own state regarding what is required. As far as Kansas is concerned, yes, they want their tax money. But they also want to know where that engine or other assembly came from. If it came out of a vehicle, then your name will need to be on the title of said vehicle, or an affidavit or receipt with the VIN # on it from the person/salvage yard it came out of. If you bought it from Jegs/Summit/performance shop/rebuilder, then the receipt alone will suffice. If there is no VIN number on the block (if it's an engine), then they will use the casting numbers to determine the approximate year and then compare it to the VIN provided on the person/salvage yard receipt.

I seem to recall one of the guys on here or the NTBA that built his T with a Mark 8 4.6 DOHC, custom blower manifold and Megasquirt. He had no paperwork for the engine and the state siezed it.

 

[smokeyco75]

The numbers on my block are still clear so I can get my ex sister in law to run them. She is a road Deputy where as I am a jail Deputy and don't have access to the same database. Getting a notarized bill of sale is easy if that will suffice here in Florida.