Rack and pinion inner tie rods

[Corley]

I recently orderred some inner and outer tie rods/ends from Rockauto for a rack and pinion setup. When they arrived, they were the wrong part, due to a catalog missprint. Rockauto had me just keep them, because the value was almost the same as return shipping, and then they sent the correct parts out for free (Thanks Rockauto!). So I have these two rack and pinion inner and outer tie rods/ends sitting here, and I got to thinking, these are really a pre built link for use in suspension, for example, in a 4 link suspension setup, or as watts links. True, they are a bit short at about 16", but maybe...

So, the question is, has anyone tried to use these things for suspension links, or anything else on a 'T'? They are actually quite nice, and the ends would be easy to attach... You'd need to add a small boot on the inner end, but I think a master cylinder boot from an older style car would do that nicely...

Don't kill me on this, it's just an idea! :sun:

Corley

PS Happy and Merry to all!

 

[RPM]

I recently orderred some inner and outer tie rods/ends from Rockauto for a rack and pinion setup. When they arrived, they were the wrong part, due to a catalog missprint. Rockauto had me just keep them, because the value was almost the same as return shipping, and then they sent the correct parts out for free (Thanks Rockauto!). So I have these two rack and pinion inner and outer tie rods/ends sitting here, and I got to thinking, these are really a pre built link for use in suspension, for example, in a 4 link suspension setup, or as watts links. True, they are a bit short at about 16", but maybe...

So, the question is, has anyone tried to use these things for suspension links, or anything else on a 'T'? They are actually quite nice, and the ends would be easy to attach... You'd need to add a small boot on the inner end, but I think a master cylinder boot from an older style car would do that nicely...

Don't kill me on this, it's just an idea! :sun:

Corley

PS Happy and Merry to all!

I would have to say no. Be very careful with suspension parts. I had a friend way back about 1970 that raced a Nova and he built some traction bars and used either ball joints or tie rod ends for pivots on the front. Well at Atco in the lights the pivot broke dropped down onto the track causing the car to go into a violent crash and he was killed. So be very careful when using the wrong part for a suspension part.

 

[fordsbyjay]

I couldn't imagine using a steering component for a suspension link. The amount of force generated by gear ratios and tires sizes has to be way more the the designed load made to turn a wheel.

 

[Corley]

At great risk of starting a war here...

While I tend to agree that steering components should not be used as suspension components, it seems obvious that they have been being used in that way for many many years. In fact, if you take a look at about half of the 'T's running around, you'll find a tie rod end at the end of a radious rod. (In point of fact, Chester tells us to do just that in his book, as does Tex Smith in his book on building hot rods.!) I know that doesn't make it right, but usage is a fact, and there seem to be few failures. Without any hard engineering data on the capabilities of these parts, you can only assume that they are not up to the task, but who knows, maybe they are stronger than we give them credit for.?. I imagine it wouldn't be too hard to actually test a few parts to the breaking point and see how close to the edge we've been living, eh?

Now of course one has to take into consideration what a part is being asked to do, and if you put 4000hp into a rear axle, you may need much bigger/better components than if you are only putting 200hp into it. Then there is the weight factor, which affects the ability to put the rubber to the road, so to speak, and limits the stresses somewhat. Then there are the actual usages to be considerred, is the part in a high stress spot, or a low stress spot? (Your suspension design and leverage has a big effect on that!) How is the rig to be driven, raced or street? Are there other parts involved that share the load? Frankly, I've seen some pretty wimpy looking clevises and heim joints on 'T' bucket suspensions, and some low grade bolts, that seem to be holding up OK, not to mention some pretty crappy welds. (Not all builds are equal...)

So while I agree with the assesment that these parts are not made for suspension usage, I'd have to say that half the suspension parts people use all the time don't really qualify either. Having a heim joint fail me in the past myself (which should have been up to the task), I also understand the risks in using these parts, and I just know that people are going to use them anyway and accept the risks.

Just don't put an Aerostar axle under it and you'll be fine. HA!

 

[Ted Brown]

Can't really tell you anything besides a wild guess without a picture of the parts...? Yes?

 

[putz]

rack and pinion inners are meant for thrust going in and out don't think they are designed for side thrust just a guess what it looks like

 

[Corley]

One would think that they would have about the same strength requirements as an outter tie rod end, since they are at the other end of the same rod. Most seem to not have the reduced diameter right at the inner ball as the posted picture shows. The darn things ought to be good for something...

 

[Ted Brown]

Looks like they would work great for a Watts link setup, no side stress there...

 

[fluidfloyd]

Corley,

I have to agree with Ron (RPM) on Not using these parts in any type of suspension design. The first issue I have is material diameter. There is almost no cross sectional area in that shaft. If it was to be a rear suspension link then I would be concerned with either a compression failure from excessive power or a tension failure from the same reason.It wouldn't take much to buckle that link. The threads are probably 1/2"-9/16" (or close metric) and that's not enough to hang your life on. Think beyond horsepower. HP/torque would probably bend them. It's the high impact loads from pot holes and speed bump that could cause failure through the threads that concern me. The second concern I have is the 16" length. Again, depending on the suspension design you could very well end up getting big pinion angle changes as the rear end travels up and down. As most buckets usually have short drive shafts they really don't like big angle changes. I would really think hard about any self designed/built suspension system. These cars are usually lite weight and very quick responding so design with your life in mind. These are just my opinions and are to be taken for what they are worth. Hope this will give you something to think about. Good luck with your project.

George

 

[Corley]

George, I don't intend to use these for anything in particular, but they just look like interesting parts. As I mentioned, most are not as whimpy as the picture. Lots of rigs with tie rods used in their suspension, so to some degree they are proven. I agree, they are a bit short...

 

[RPM]

George, I don't intend to use these for anything in particular, but they just look like interesting parts. As I mentioned, most are not as whimpy as the picture. Lots of rigs with tie rods used in their suspension, so to some degree they are proven. I agree, they are a bit short...

Most of the tie rod ends used for spliting bones are Ford, and they are 11/16 diameter.

 

[ellis8500]

From an engineering perspective.....those parts are designed for a specific purpose. They are sized for the loads experienced in a steering system for a particular vehicle. Use them for something else where the loads may be much higher and you are inviting catastrophic failure. On the ones you pictured, there is a diameter undercut. This is there for a purpose. If the wheel experiences a very high side load, like sliding into a curb hard with the wheels turned, the rod is designed to bend or break at a load that is less than the load required to destroy the rack and pinion assembly. I know that from experience with a teenage driver in a Ford Taurus. Lower control arm, inner and outer tie rods, wheel alignment and labor made the $2000 car into a $3000 car in less than one week of owning it.