Seat Belts
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QuadBart
Member
I personally do NOT feel totally comfortable with seat belts in a Bucket......OR any open cockpit style car without a rollbar for that matter.
I think I would prefer to be "Thrown Free" in case of a roll over.
Might a seat belt help in a lesser accident....? Maybe.
Federal government didn't mandate seat belts in cars untill 1967, ( someone correct me if Im wrong)
So if your title says your car is a 66 or earlier, your exempt.
I think I would prefer to be "Thrown Free" in case of a roll over.
Might a seat belt help in a lesser accident....? Maybe.
Federal government didn't mandate seat belts in cars untill 1967, ( someone correct me if Im wrong)
So if your title says your car is a 66 or earlier, your exempt.
In a major accident, all bets are off no mater what you do in a bucket, IMHO, but for the more usual "fender bender" type accident, I want a seat belt to keep me in the seat and not thrashed about in (or out of) the car. but that's just my personal preference.
Russ
Russ
tfeverfred
Well-Known Member
Wow, someone HAD to bring this up. Very touchy subject, my friend. I have them, but I can't remember the last time I wore them. I also tend to go with the "I'd rather get tossed and take my chances" point of reason. If you can call that "reason".
In my accident, I wasn't wearing them and came out okay. BUT... a really big BUT, I was in a residential neighborhood and the cop car was only going about 30mph. The hit was on the left front and I slid to the right side of my seat. HOWEVER, what kept me from flying OVER my windshield or through it, was my steering wheel. It got bent to crap, but I never felt it.
I let passengers, I don't have many, make the choice. They are bolted to the frame, so in a REALLY big hit, I'll be strapped in nice and tight, so the fiberglass chunks can slice through my skinny ass. Of course, if I get tossed out, with my luck, a nice old oak will be waiting for me or most certainly, the asphalt.
These are home built cars. They will only be safe to a very small degree. You learn to live with it and roll the dice. Only YOU can make the choice of wearing belts.
In my accident, I wasn't wearing them and came out okay. BUT... a really big BUT, I was in a residential neighborhood and the cop car was only going about 30mph. The hit was on the left front and I slid to the right side of my seat. HOWEVER, what kept me from flying OVER my windshield or through it, was my steering wheel. It got bent to crap, but I never felt it.
I let passengers, I don't have many, make the choice. They are bolted to the frame, so in a REALLY big hit, I'll be strapped in nice and tight, so the fiberglass chunks can slice through my skinny ass. Of course, if I get tossed out, with my luck, a nice old oak will be waiting for me or most certainly, the asphalt.
These are home built cars. They will only be safe to a very small degree. You learn to live with it and roll the dice. Only YOU can make the choice of wearing belts.
Keeper
Active Member
I am the same way. I do not feel comfortable in any car without a seatbelt on.
Are they mandatory for a 1923 Model T, legally no (well up here anyway) but I will not drive without them.
Telman2
Active Member
My bucket is registered as a 1923 and legally it has to meet the safety and emission requirements of 1923. The catch 22 rears it's ugly head when any of the grandchildren want to go for a ride, state law says they must be belted in (the little ones require car seats) so I have them and use them. Part of my responsibility as a grandfather is to set a good example for the grandchildren.
Zack
Member
Not trying to add fire to this sometimes touchy topic, LOL. But, I will install them in my T. The only reason i plan to do it is because i spent 15 years as a Police Officer and have worked hundreds of car and motorcycle wrecks throughout my career. In the vast majority of cases i've seen where ejection was possible, persons who stayed contained inside the vehicle fared significantly better than the ones who were ejected. In fact, the majority of the wrecks i worked where a person was ejected resulted in a fatality. Of course, i am speaking of serious wrecks and not fender benders. I have also seen times when a motorcycle rider had better results if he was able to stay with the bike rather than being tossed 50ft. down the highway. Sometimes hitting the ground or another roadside object with only your body can be instantly fatal.
Now, i know modern day cars are no comparison to a T but nevertheless, the overall odds of staying in vs. ejection are far better to me simply based on past experience and the dynamics of an impact. Telma2n also makes a very valid point. My kids will also be buckled in or they won't ride. This issue (for me) is basically the same results one could expect in a motorcycle wreck so there is really no clear or definitive answer whether or not a belt will save your life if you have an accident in a T. It is a gamble every time we head out but me and my family will take our chances and be buckled in. As i stated before on this forum, i will drive and respect my T as if it were a motorcycle and constantly be watching out for the moron who pulls right out in front of me and never saw me coming.
Just my $.02 worth.
Now, i know modern day cars are no comparison to a T but nevertheless, the overall odds of staying in vs. ejection are far better to me simply based on past experience and the dynamics of an impact. Telma2n also makes a very valid point. My kids will also be buckled in or they won't ride. This issue (for me) is basically the same results one could expect in a motorcycle wreck so there is really no clear or definitive answer whether or not a belt will save your life if you have an accident in a T. It is a gamble every time we head out but me and my family will take our chances and be buckled in. As i stated before on this forum, i will drive and respect my T as if it were a motorcycle and constantly be watching out for the moron who pulls right out in front of me and never saw me coming.
Just my $.02 worth.
I personally put them in and use them. Look at the NTBA site under Carolina Chapter and take a look at the wreck my son had. Had it not been for the belt holding him in, he would have been thrown out into a bunch of trees, probably killing him doing close to 55mph. Read the info in the pictures.
Zack
Member
WOW, he is SUPER lucky he did not get hurt seriously.
fordsbyjay
Active Member
I never had seat belts for the first couple years then added them for safety issues. I don't know how many times we have hit bumps in the road at highway speeds where it just about throws you out of the car. It is even worse the lighter you are. In the car seems like a better idea then on the highway. As far as accidents I consider my bucket no different then driving a motorbike. If you get hit there is no good way. Defensive driving is 100% of the time.
donsrods
Member
I only put one in my 27 so I would be legal at the Billetproof Drags last October and never will wear one in any open hot rod. If it flips the last thing I want is to be strapped into it, would rather risk being thrown clear.
I used to have a picture of a T Bucket that was owned by a girl named Megan. At 70 mph something locked up in the drivetrain and it flipped, and ended up with the cockpit flat up against a guardrail on the interstate. Luckily, she was thrown into the grass on the side of the road and did have some broken ribs, but if she had been wearing a seat belt she would have been crushed against the guardrail and probably killed.
To me it is a person choice and since my 27 is titled as a 27 I am exempt.
Don
I used to have a picture of a T Bucket that was owned by a girl named Megan. At 70 mph something locked up in the drivetrain and it flipped, and ended up with the cockpit flat up against a guardrail on the interstate. Luckily, she was thrown into the grass on the side of the road and did have some broken ribs, but if she had been wearing a seat belt she would have been crushed against the guardrail and probably killed.
To me it is a person choice and since my 27 is titled as a 27 I am exempt.
Don
Mike
Well-Known Member
Don, I agree it is a personal choice. I am the same way with helmet laws. Let those who ride decide. I'm not a fan of cigarette smoke, but if someone chooses to ignore the dangers, I support their decision. As long as our decisions do not endanger the lives of others, I feel we deserve to make them for ourselves.
That being said, my personal choice is to not only have belts, but also to wear them. One of my best friends was killed our senior year of high school, after losing control of his car on an icy curve. I'm not sure if the damage to his head was caused by the windshield he went through, or the tree that stopped his forward progress. Another friend was street racing (which I absolutely do not condone), lost control of his Road Runner and was also ejected into a tree. He's now a drooling quadraplegic, who spends his days sitting in a wheelchair, in a world of his own. I often wonder if whatever is left of him realizes a seat belt would have allowed him to live a normal life.
I honestly believe for every story about the person who survived by being thrown clear, there are dozens of stories about those who survived by wearing a seat belt. It's all a numbers game and Zack pointed out the numbers support the attempt to remain safe.
But I do support a person's right to make his or her own decisions. The alleged experts claim Mother Earth doesn't have the resources to support more than 5,000,000,000 people, so maybe the herd needs some thinning anyway.
That being said, my personal choice is to not only have belts, but also to wear them. One of my best friends was killed our senior year of high school, after losing control of his car on an icy curve. I'm not sure if the damage to his head was caused by the windshield he went through, or the tree that stopped his forward progress. Another friend was street racing (which I absolutely do not condone), lost control of his Road Runner and was also ejected into a tree. He's now a drooling quadraplegic, who spends his days sitting in a wheelchair, in a world of his own. I often wonder if whatever is left of him realizes a seat belt would have allowed him to live a normal life.
I honestly believe for every story about the person who survived by being thrown clear, there are dozens of stories about those who survived by wearing a seat belt. It's all a numbers game and Zack pointed out the numbers support the attempt to remain safe.
But I do support a person's right to make his or her own decisions. The alleged experts claim Mother Earth doesn't have the resources to support more than 5,000,000,000 people, so maybe the herd needs some thinning anyway.
EX JUNK
Moderator
Mike, you have expressed my sentiments exactly on this subject. I have belts that are properly and securely mounted in my T and I feel that they will allow me to stay firmly behind the wheel when having to take evasive action to AVOID an accident. (You can't steer from the passenger seat or while laying out on the pavement.)
Jim
Jim
Mike
Well-Known Member
Jim a seat belt isn't going to save anyone if their vehicle is run over by a freight train at speed. We can point to that as a death that was not prevented by wearing a seat belt. <shrug> But if something is going to take a hit or get scuffed, I prefer it to be something other than portions of my anatomy.
For a time, the guy I raced with was married to my former employer's daughter. And she raced as well. We had rented Ohio Valley Raceway, to do some testing and it was one of those days where the humidity was in a race to beat the temperature to the highest number. Actual altitude down there was around 530 or 540 feet, as I recall. But factoring in temperature, humidity and barometric pressure, the corrected altitude was 3,390 feet. It was ugly hot. The daughter was going out to make a hit and Brian asked her where her fire suit was. Her answer was that she was not wanting to wear a three-layer Nomex jacket and pants in that kind of heat and there were no safety officials around to make her wear it. (RPM is smiling and shaking his head as he reads this.) For her, the safety equipment was required by the rules and not by common sense. Earlier that year, at the Gatornationals, she crashed a brand-new B/EA Corvette at the finish line. Her father saved the gauges and the MSD box out of that car. The rest of the car was destroyed. She spent the night in the hospital. Yet she was still thinking it was OK to not wear her safety equipment?
With the confines of the dragster, one of my jobs was to put Brian in the car. Three-layer Nomex jacket and pants. SFI-approved shoes. Two-layer Nomex gloves. Arm restraints. Helmet. Horse collar neck support (and he now wears a HANS, as well). Once I had his belts cinched up, he would squirm, trying to find a more comfortable spot. So I would cinch the belts tighter. He would squirm again. When I could hear him grunting, I would generally cinch the belts one last time. It was extremely clear we were running massive risks, trying to go as fast as we were. And I was not sending him down the track until I knew he was as safe as I could make him. I've had racing pals seriously injured whilst wearing their safety equipment. I've had racing pals killed whilst wearing their safety equipment. Is that reason enough to not bother wearing it? Not in my book.
For a time, the guy I raced with was married to my former employer's daughter. And she raced as well. We had rented Ohio Valley Raceway, to do some testing and it was one of those days where the humidity was in a race to beat the temperature to the highest number. Actual altitude down there was around 530 or 540 feet, as I recall. But factoring in temperature, humidity and barometric pressure, the corrected altitude was 3,390 feet. It was ugly hot. The daughter was going out to make a hit and Brian asked her where her fire suit was. Her answer was that she was not wanting to wear a three-layer Nomex jacket and pants in that kind of heat and there were no safety officials around to make her wear it. (RPM is smiling and shaking his head as he reads this.) For her, the safety equipment was required by the rules and not by common sense. Earlier that year, at the Gatornationals, she crashed a brand-new B/EA Corvette at the finish line. Her father saved the gauges and the MSD box out of that car. The rest of the car was destroyed. She spent the night in the hospital. Yet she was still thinking it was OK to not wear her safety equipment?
With the confines of the dragster, one of my jobs was to put Brian in the car. Three-layer Nomex jacket and pants. SFI-approved shoes. Two-layer Nomex gloves. Arm restraints. Helmet. Horse collar neck support (and he now wears a HANS, as well). Once I had his belts cinched up, he would squirm, trying to find a more comfortable spot. So I would cinch the belts tighter. He would squirm again. When I could hear him grunting, I would generally cinch the belts one last time. It was extremely clear we were running massive risks, trying to go as fast as we were. And I was not sending him down the track until I knew he was as safe as I could make him. I've had racing pals seriously injured whilst wearing their safety equipment. I've had racing pals killed whilst wearing their safety equipment. Is that reason enough to not bother wearing it? Not in my book.
Yep, she is or was a real piece of work! On this same note anyone remember Lee Shepard?
I had my 14 year old daughter flip a Jr Dragster up side down in the lights. She ran 75 mph hit the brakes and flipped the car. Had all the safety equipment in place and she walked away with out a scratch.
I had my 14 year old daughter flip a Jr Dragster up side down in the lights. She ran 75 mph hit the brakes and flipped the car. Had all the safety equipment in place and she walked away with out a scratch.
Mike
Well-Known Member
Ron, I would really like to know what really happened to Lee Shepherd. I saw photographs of the belts and they certainly looked as if they had been cut in a shear. The ends were cut that cleanly. There was a lot of speculation he wasn't wearing the belts at all. But I've talked with a lot of people who knew Lee a lot better than I, and they've all said they cannot imagine him not buckling in.
What I do know is they were using their Alston test mule that day. And the car had one of the old, plastic seats in it. You remember, the seats where they would cut the seat belt slots with a hot knife, aye? So it seems the "official" story is the belts were compromised by chafing back and forth on the sharp edges. It was a terrible loss.
What I do know is they were using their Alston test mule that day. And the car had one of the old, plastic seats in it. You remember, the seats where they would cut the seat belt slots with a hot knife, aye? So it seems the "official" story is the belts were compromised by chafing back and forth on the sharp edges. It was a terrible loss.
2old2fast
Active Member
This is mainly addressed to Telman, but anyone feel free to jump in... I also live in Il. & the car is titled as a '23, soooo when my now 8 yr. old grandaughter & I go for a ride w/o belts the local police told me that it was not needed for her to be belted in , did you get different information? Just curious as to what the law "really" is ?? dave
I remember all to well when it happened, the story I remember is they were only testing 60' times so he did not bother to buckle up. Then something bad happened and car went full throttle and crashed. That may be all wrong, but that is how I remember it. The reason it stands out in my mind is we had a set of his heads in the shop at the time he was killed.
