Spring Question for Ted

[v65rider]

Ted (or anyone else),
How do you not use shackles on your front spring? Does the spring just sit on a plate? How long is your spring and where did you get it? Do you have any pictures that clearly show the spring ends?
Just curious as I've never heard of not having shackles except on some trailers where the spring is allowed to slide.

Dave

 

[Rick]

Ted (or anyone else),
How do you not use shackles on your front spring? Does the spring just sit on a plate? How long is your spring and where did you get it? Do you have any pictures that clearly show the spring ends?
Just curious as I've never heard of not having shackles except on some trailers where the spring is allowed to slide.

Dave

In Teds album you'll see how he did his spring.
http://www.tbucketeers.com/gallery/image/1232-my-axle-underside/

 

[Youngster]

I think I will stick to shackles.....

Ron

 

[Gerry]

I think I will stick to shackles.....

Ron

Come on Ron.

Thought you would be the one to try out something different. If you look closely its a rubber bush that takes up the difference in length when the spring flattens out. Seems simple to me but I may be missing something. Always had a thing about the shackles on my early set up... never really got on with them. Probably why I went with the opposed coil thingy
Gerry

 

[Ted Brown]

The shackles really let the chassis move from side to side more than the 5/8" bolt in the 4 bar bushings, that spring is 48" long, rides really great...

 

[Corley]

Take a look under the back end of a C3 'Vette, and you will see a leaf spring with no shackles, just a bolt through a hole in each end.

 

[putz]

Here are a few pics of corvette C3 suspension.

 

[v65rider]

Thanks for the replys and pictures. Interesting approach.

 

[EX JUNK]

Maybe I'm all wet but I believe that there is a marked difference in how a beam axle reacts to a bump or dip compared to an independent type suspension. The Vette rear is an independent and therefore is different and should not be likened to the "standard" beam front axle of the T.

Jim


P.S. If I'm wrong, please excuse my ignorance.

 

[Corley]

Jim,

Assuming the axle is contained, (meaning it can't move side to side or front to back) a spring is a spring is a spring, right? Whether it's flat, coiled, torsion bar, or whatever, really doesn't matter as much as it's charactoristics (spring rate, etc.). I think that Ted loves his spring mount more because it is a longer spring (softer ride) than because of the way it is mounted.

With the buggy spring setup, you are also asking the spring and shackle to provide the Panard function. (Done wrong, that can be a little goosy.) With the 'Vette style setup, I believe you would also need a Panard bar. While I agree with you that there is a vast difference between reaction of a solid axle and independent, In this case, I don't see the solid axle vs independent suspension as the main factor.

JMHO
CB

 

[Ted Brown]

the main reason that i use that setup is to gain length to the flat spring, the longer it is the better it rides, same goes for coils springs, they need to be very long to give a nice ride with a light car, if I had used standard spring hangers with shackles, the spring would have to be at least 5 inches shorter, a big difference... PS, Jim, if you used the same type of spring hangers with your Panhard bar, you would also get a nicer ride, as now you would not be getting any of that beautiful setup in a bind, as this would let the axle move with the force of the Panhard bar as the car moves up and down..

 

[Youngster]

I'm going to go along with Jim on this one. Granted, the 'vette rear is set up in a simular way but there is a difference between the way the spring reacts in these 2 dissimular applications.

In the 'vette application with the IRS, the end of the spring travels in a straight up and down movement. There is very little if any arc in the travel. What arc there is is absorbed by the long connector between the spring and the crossmember. Another example of this is the front sway bar on a production car. You don't find a short connector there either.

On a solid axle there is a definate arc that the spring end is forced to travel in. With the short connector, you are asking the mount to the axle to make up for the lack of movement of the connector. Sorry but I would not feel comfortable asking the 2 pieces of 3/8" stock welded together and then to 1/4" wall tubing (the axle)to perform in this way.

Now to address the long spring issue. Very true the long spring is going to give you a smoother ride. On a light car such as a T, do we really need to go to this? It's also true that on most of our cars, we are asking the spring and the shackles to act as a panhard bar. Again on a light car with a properly designed front end with a short spring you can achieve a decent ride. If you want it to ride like a IFS then you are building the wrong type of car.

In my mind (cough cough) the answer to this question lies some where in the middle. If you want a smoother ride on your T, run a longer spring with seperate axle mount for the spring. Use a dead pearch on one end and a shackle on the other end. You will still experience some side to side movement but not as much with much less stress on all the parts involved. JMHO

Ron

 

[409T]

If you want it to ride like a IFS then you are building the wrong type of car.

Yes! Remember the term Hot Rod. Too much is not enough, etc., etc.