Supercharger Question

[Tyus]

Just wondering if anyone has any experience with superchargers. I purchased a used b&m 144 supercharger locally. Installed the blower and pulley and they don't line up. The crank pulley and tensioner was 10 groove as opposed of the snout is only 6. I figured I would still be able to use them, just as long as they line up with the 6 groove snout up top. Do I need to get a 10 groove snout pulley? or is the 10 groove crank pulley need to get replaced because it sticks out too far? Any help would be great.

 

[Screaming Metal]

OK, now I've heard of folks doing that, but theres alot of stress there. Its a matter of how much 'fudge factor' you need. That, my friend, is a cheap way of getting around 'being exact' as far as lineup goes. B&M, Holley, etc. land all over the place, and can get by with this where if you have a Gilmer or 'cogbelt' on a Roots, if you don't have things just so-so, if your tracking hard to the front or the rear with your pulleys, and you have faceplates on your pulleys, they're gonna fray really fast, its gonna start having 'babys', and those 'babys' will grab your wires, radiator hoses or anything else thats close by and tear them to hell.
On the grooved rib-belt, as long as you can get a long straightedge, put it along side the edge of the blower pulley, both front and back, and your pretty well centered on your crank pulley, yes, you can run it. Me, I ONLY run same size top and bottom, and have things lined up. I don't let misaligned shit leave my shop
But, I would call B&M, to be on the safe side, both the 144's and the 177's still have alot of pull on them when the boost is on. If your blower belt is too narrow, you can get slippage, your belt will heat up and could possibly lead to failure. Blower belt failures have taken out whole nosepieces before, not to mention hoses, radiators, rad. mounts....
It would be best to call them, they can tell you the correct belt width and dia. is for your app, what your bottom pulley is supposed to be dia. wise and width.
I have all kinds of reference books on these things, I've had some of my customers buy used kits and be really over-driving the blower for their application. Its best to call and give them the blower #, pulley dia.'s, motor size, all that info. Because you don't know if the guy before you didn't replace the top pulley, going from 1to1 to 10% over, or more. I've run these little buggers at 30% over, really cranking the boost, but keeping motor revs down.
All it takes is a little too much boost, to blow out your head gaskets at least, at worst melt down your whole mill or just break a crank and some rods....

 

[Screaming Metal]

Be sure to make sure all your bearings are tight, try to pull and push on the snout pulley, spin it by hand and make sure you don't have any roughness. Also check to see if your running oil in the covers, and make sure there is some in there if its supposed to have some.
Check to make sure your top and bottom gaskets are in good shape....

 

[Screaming Metal]

Oh, I forgot to add, they probably got a crank pulley from another motor and swapped them out. Seen all kinds of crazy stuff like that. I'd get a shorter crank pulley, the more its sticking out there the more frake up potential there is.
But, like I say, call B&M, they'll have all the part #'s for your application.
You have to remember, these little ones, you've got Holley, B&M, Magnacharger, and more, and these little ones are popular. Folks will swap around things trying to get their setup right, instead of ordering what they need.
Is the motor pulley and balancer all one unit? If it is, get a extended top pulley. If the lower pulley bolts to your harmonic balancer, you could get a shorter one, possibly have that one machined down if aluminum and has a thick face. If a steel stamped one (el cheapo), get a alum. one.
Just from looking at your picture, that crank pulley does not seem to be the right one for your setup....

 

[GT63]

The bottom pulley Looks like it came from a B&M 174 blower and is for a long water pump. The upper pulley and snout is for a 144 blower with short water pump. You can order the correct 6-rib pulley from Summit or Holley. Holley now owns the B&M and Weiand blower lines.

 

[Screaming Metal]

The tensioner should have the same pulley as the blower, and usually the idler arm or 'tensioner' fits around the blower 'snout', you swing it against the inside of the belt for adjustment.
If it goes on the snout, and the pulleys between the blower and the idler are different, they've been robbing parts or threw together this setup to sell it.
As GT63 said, looks like the 174, or 177 model lower pulley. If your idler bolts to the motor, its a motor specific unit, and you'll probably need to to get a new lower pulley along with a idler.
Call and talk to these folks, a good bunch of guys and they'll help you figure out what you got and what you need to get your T goin' with the blower....
http://www.dyersblowers.com/157.html

 

[Screaming Metal]

I've got pissed off before because of assholes throwing together parts to run on these.....if you don't have your heart set on a wide ribbed belt, go to your local Machine Shop or talk to Dyers or BDS, and get a double or triple v-belt pulley setup. If your belts go, all you gotta do is stop in any parts store and within 30 minutes, your back on the road.
If you do go that route, get matched v-belts, they sell them in sets....when you first get your motor started. You can run a single vbelt to get yourself home in a emergency....if needed. The vbelts also put less stress on your crank and snout.

 

[GT63]

The B&M blowers had two kinds of tensioner configs. This one goes on the engine. below and left of the water pump pulley/

This on bolts just below the snout, most common on the B&M.

The little Weiand Blower used the spring tensioner

 

[Dirt-T]

Please post how you get it installed and working.

 

[GT63]

Please post how you get it installed and working.

Here's a link to the Weiand 144, there's very little difference between it and the B&M 144.
http://www.holley.com/data/Products/Technical/199R10244-1.pdf

Technical Information
http://www.holley.com/data/TechService/Technical/Supercharger Tech Info.pdf

 

[Tyus]

Ok, So I finally got it fixed. I talked to holley and they got me part number for the 10 rib pulley for the snout. After receiving it, the hole diameter was different. I called back holley and they said it definately should fit. So i took it and had a machine shop bore out the hole. It only needed like 1/16". After getting that back I lined it up with the crank pulley and the crank pulley was out too far. I called back holley and gave them the part # and they said it should work. Once again I had a machine shop take down the pulley. So I guess mixing new parts with old doesn't work too well. The problem I'm having now is I can't get it to stay running with out constantly giving it gas. I've never messed with a supercharger before and kind of winging it. I used the electronic fuel pump that was already on the car and the fuel gauge shows 6 psi which b&m says it needs so I left it. The carb is a 750 holley demon double pumper. Any ideas on what I can check?

 

[PotvinGuy]

Is the problem just at idle, or will the motor not run at any RPM? Has this carb and motor worked before? How is the manifold vacuum? What is the timing? What is the compression ratio? What's the drive ratio on the blower?

Don't let the blower throw you off; they are simple devices and unless you're racing there's little to go wrong. The problem almost certainly lies elsewhere.

 

[Screaming Metal]

Just as PotvinGuy said, these are simple devices, theres little to go wrong, BUT, you have to respect them though!

Let me just say this, all things being OK, just bolting this blower setup onto a stock motor, even with the carb set to run on a stock motor without a blower, and with stock non-blown timing settings, it should start fine and run OK enough to dial everything in, you might have to idle it to 1000 rpm to do it.
Let me say these things....A blower needs lower compression than a stock motor. 8:1 or 8.5:1 is about all you wanna run on the street Max.
The Ideal is 6.5 to 7.0:1. Up above 9 you start getting into detonation problems and SERIOUS territory, performance wise. But, for mild stuff, set right, Mid 6's to mid/high 8's is do-able. Better fuel, lower compression, and the right timing all help in this dept. Anything over 100 Horses, you'll need to go to a colder plug. Its very easy to get over 100 horses with the Roots blower, so, you gotta watch things closely.
This isn't rocket science or VooDoo, these things have been hanging off the side of Diesel motors since the 20's, will go well in excess of 100,000 miles before rebuild if treated with respect.

I ran a Pontiac 455 SuperDuty, Turbo 400, 4.88's with a 8-71 with a single 4-bbl, no problems, and the only things I changed in the motor were to low compression pistons, and a special Forged crank. Run it alot of years on the street, rain/shine/sleet or snow. It was my advertisement....ran 10.22's at the track with slicks and av. gas. That was a full bodyed '75 FireBird with drag shocks on the front and Lakewood slapper bars on the rear.
The more blower pressure you run, the higher your running compression pressure is when the boost is on. Thats the reason for the lower compression.
Our race motors that run well above 10.5/11.5:1 usually have o'ringed decks, with special crank, rods and pistons.


Now that things are mounted, a 750 double-pumper would do fine. Get out your timing light, and a vacuum ga., idle it up, let us know where the timing is, and how much vacuum your pulling, and we'll help you out.
Its probably the timing too low at a low RPM, and not rich enough at the correct RPM.


We're just guessing without further info....but don't give up. Once you've been blown, its hard to settle for anything else!