The best laid plans....

[Zandoz]

Wellllll, it's become painfully obvious that building the car I want is beyond my grasp. Since I was a kid I've been in love with the old bobtail style Ts like Tweedy Pie and others.

But I wanted to build one with a twist....making it a low as possible. I have serious and deteriorating mobility issues, and I wanted to make it as easy getting in and out of as possible. Also I wanted the improved handling from the lower center of gravity.

Another feature I was hoping for was to use a cool 1920 Hupmobile grille shell, mounted intact just ahead of the front axle, kind of like this.


Another unusual feature was I wanted to use an old fox body Mustang racing suspension in the rear.

On top of all that I need the vehicle to be trailer hitch friendly, to pull my power chair trailer.

As it turned out, accomplishing these and other features I wanted would require an unusual custom built frame that is beyond my means...so it's time to change gears.

This time I'm starting my plans with a shortened version of RPM's standard frame, to get the bobtail short wheelbase. It's looking like adapting the Mustang suspension components will not be too hard. The down side it looks like the the lowness and the forward mounted radiator and Hupmobile shell are casualties.

The only way I can figure to use the shell would be cutting off the bottom, as is frequently done with 32 shells on buckets...but I just can't bring myself to cut up an intact and straight piece of 94 year old rarity. As an alternative, I have an already cut on Speedway Sprint style nose and grille...which was what I was planning to use before I found the old Hupmobile shell.

To help with the mobility ingress/egress issues I've decided to use airbags instead of coil-overs in the rear. This way I can make it "kneel" on the bump-stops about 3" for getting in and out, and raising for driving. Additionally the bags give me adjustability for trailer pulling.

Sooooo...here's where this mouse's next generation of plans stand....


Good? Bad? Ugly? Take up stamp collecting?

 

[old round fart]

Hope you can get this to work. I'll be watching as I too have mobility issues and want a bucket.

 

[bobs66440]

I like it. Nice illustration BTW.

 

[EX JUNK]

I like everything about it except the steering wheel location, why must it sit so high? It looks as though you'll be looking through the steering wheel rather than over it, unless you are planning to sit "on" rather than "in" your car. IMHO

Jim

 

[choppedtop]

Looks like a good looking ride to me also. Yep, steering wheel looks a bit to high. I really like the track style nose/grill shell.
Lee

 

[fletcherson]

I like everything about it except the steering wheel location, why must it sit so high? It looks as though you'll be looking through the steering wheel rather than over it, unless you are planning to sit "on" rather than "in" your car. IMHO

Jim

It's challenging enough without the mobility issues. I broke my back (shattered l2 vertebrae) in 97 and have limited mobility/constant pain as well, I am not in a wheel chair anymore, Thank God! I was for a year. I admire your passion and inner strength! Good luck with the build, I too like your ideas.

 

[fluidfloyd]

Bill...Nothing wrong with plan "B". Work it right and those air springs or bags will set you on the ground. Have you considered a stretched door length to allow you more entry room? I have faith in you.
George

 

[Swampdog]

Like that color.
<--------- Look Here

 

[Zandoz]

The seat will not set as low as one may think...the rear of the seat will set on the upper control arm pockets. The steering wheel may well be higher than it should be, but there are way too many variables to position it now. On the forward end it will have to be set to get the shaft past the brake pedal, engine block, and headers...on the other end it's going to be a matter of positioning it to work with my mobility issues rather than aesthetics. I will be using a small diameter D-shaped wheel, with a quick release. For illustration purposes, I just used the proportions from Tweedy Pie

George, I am planning on a larger door cut out for the drivers side. the lines do not show up well in the illustrations. Actually, I'm considering the possibility of wrapping the door under all the way to the frame, and using trunk style hinges to get the door out of the way entirely when open. In this case, the bags will not make this a pavement scraper...it will only drop about 3" before hitting the bump stops.

Swampdog, the first time I saw a pic of your T I had to call my wife to come take a look at it. Your color combination is exactly what I've had in mind since day one. That day, one of the seats that were delivered the day before was sitting on the floor next to me....two-tone grey.

 

[hutchman]

You sir are an inspiration to me. I too have mobility issues....some self induced from weight which I am handling now....the other illness. I think your ideas are near perfect and cannot wait to watch your build and see the final product. Goodonya!

 

[fletcherson]

You sir are an inspiration to me. I too have mobility issues....some self induced from weight which I am handling now....the other illness. I think your ideas are near perfect and cannot wait to watch your build and see the final product. Goodonya!

I am not sure what type column you are planning on using, but I wonder if one out of an old tbird that tilts and pivots would help get you in and out easier?

 

[Zandoz]

You sir are an inspiration to me. I too have mobility issues....some self induced from weight which I am handling now....the other illness. I think your ideas are near perfect and cannot wait to watch your build and see the final product. Goodonya!

Thank you. In my case the issues are weight related, combined with Degenerative Joint Disease and circulation issues in the legs. I don't know how thrilling this project is going to be to watch...the rate of progress is likely to make it like watching continental drift. For me this is a bucket list project that will likely take years. For now I'm just acquiring parts and adjusting the plans as the acquisitions finalize their aspects. Health permitting I'll be cleaning and painting the drivetrain and getting the frame this coming summer

 

[hutchman]

I am not sure what type column you are planning on using, but I wonder if one out of an old tbird that tilts and pivots would help get you in and out easier?

That is a good idea...don't know how they are mounted, but that is some out of the box thinking. I like it!!!

 

[Zandoz]

I am not sure what type column you are planning on using, but I wonder if one out of an old tbird that tilts and pivots would help get you in and out easier?

One of my first aquisitions was the steering column...a 28" non-tilt Flaming River unit. I know the T-Bird units you're talking about, but I've never run across a complete unit for sale. Also, I suspect that they're a bit complicated since the column locking mechanism is tied into the shifter.

 

[fletcherson]

One of my first aquisitions was the steering column...a 28" non-tilt Flaming River unit. I know the T-Bird units you're talking about, but I've never run across a complete unit for sale. Also, I suspect that they're a bit complicated since the column locking mechanism is tied into the shifter.

I haven't seen one in years, but I don't pay a lot of attention to those cars, my dad loved them and owned several of them back in the day. I bet there are some out there to be found with a little digging. Not sure how they actuated, but I suspect linkage or cable. I am sure that someone with the enginuity that you are demonstrating on this build could engineer a resolution. I will keep my eyes open and ask around at the car shows and guys I know to see if anyone has or knows about them.

 

[old round fart]

I saw a steering wheel column for a pro stock car I think that would swing to the center of the car for entry. Think it was at Doug Hurbert's site. I'll look around for it.

 

[fordsbyjay]

Flaming river makes a sliding adapter for columns.

I like the car but I am confused why you are hung up on the Fox body rear suspension. It sucked in the Mustang and packaging in your car is going to be harder than you think. Especially for how close the rear end is to the body. A few years ago I hit a huge pothole on the highway and the rear end bit the body in my Total car so I happen to have a picture of how much room there is from the rear end to the seat back. There is very little room back there for Mustang upper links as they sit so high. There is some lower versions of 4 bars and 4 links but not using stock components. You could raise the seat for more clearance but my car sits pretty high now and that is not one of your requirements for the build.

Just my thoughts. I know sometimes I think stuff up and make some drawings thinking there is lots of room only to find out when I look at the car I didn't realize things were so tight. Good luck with the build.

 

[Hotrod46]

I think you'll be happy with the air bags. I have them on my car. I don't use them to lower the car, they were chosen for ride, load leveling/maintaining suspension travel and keeping the stance the same all the time. I used an auto leveling sensor/control off of a Cadillac. I combined that with some small (1/8") 12 volt stainless valves and a small Viar compressor. You don't need an air tank for leveling and load control. You might need one for what you want to do, otherwise it will take a long time to get the car up to ride height. My compressor runs 30-40 seconds to level the car with no tank.

I mounted the air valves directly on the bags with brass fittings. This went a long way in avoiding leakdown. My car can sit for weeks without leaking down. I also used DOT approved tubing and brass push to connect tubing fittings. They cost more, but are designed for 18 wheeler service and have been trouble free.

I used the auto leveling system because the pressure in the bags varies with load. A pressure gauge would work if you checked the pressure at several loads. The Cadillac system just looks at the position of the sensing arm and adds or releases air as needed, no gauge needed.

Also, you could fab your own swing away column. There are swiveling ball mounts for the lower end of a steering column. You could mount the upper part of the column on a sliding track of some kind with a latch to keep it in place (probably need a ball mount there too). The steering shaft would need a telescoping joint. These are available from Borgeson.

+1 on not using the Fox suspension. No real advantage. The work involved would kill any money savings IMO. The roll center is nearly as high as a typical T panhard bar. The arms are heavy for a T.

Mike

 

[fletcherson]

I think you'll be happy with the air bags. I have them on my car. I don't use them to lower the car, they were chosen for ride, load leveling/maintaining suspension travel and keeping the stance the same all the time. I used an auto leveling sensor/control off of a Cadillac. I combined that with some small (1/8") 12 volt stainless valves and a small Viar compressor. You don't need an air tank for leveling and load control. You might need one for what you want to do, otherwise it will take a long time to get the car up to ride height. My compressor runs 30-40 seconds to level the car with no tank.

I mounted the air valves directly on the bags with brass fittings. This went a long way in avoiding leakdown. My car can sit for weeks without leaking down. I also used DOT approved tubing and brass push to connect tubing fittings. They cost more, but are designed for 18 wheeler service and have been trouble free.

I used the auto leveling system because the pressure in the bags varies with load. A pressure gauge would work if you checked the pressure at several loads. The Cadillac system just looks at the position of the sensing arm and adds or releases air as needed, no gauge needed.

Also, you could fab your own swing away column. There are swiveling ball mounts for the lower end of a steering column. You could mount the upper part of the column on a sliding track of some kind with a latch to keep it in place (probably need a ball mount there too). The steering shaft would need a telescoping joint. These are available from Borgeson.

+1 on not using the Fox suspension. No real advantage. The work involved would kill any money savings IMO. The roll center is nearly as high as a typical T panhard bar. The arms are heavy for a T.

Mike

If you can't find a swing away, there are telescoping, tilt columns in cadillacs and others that could be modified to gain entry. I have one from a Deville that I am thinking about mocking up in my T bucket because I do not like the mid cab set up it now has.

 

[fluidfloyd]

Bill... We have talked about several rear suspension systems before. If you want to run the Explorer unit because you have it you might consider converting it to a three link. Not having one here I can't give you any dimensions for the lower link brackets but the upper can be handled quit easily. You have CAD so give it some thought. You might be a lot closer then you realize. Take care.

George