Batwings and hairpins Q's

[RWENUTS]

Today I managed to remove the bones and pins from my 38 axle. Much grinding and beating with my bfh. The bones weren't useable. Someone had piecut them to split them and had welded them back together. One was bent 3 inches outward more than the other.
Fun job. Even set my cover-alls on fire from grinding slag. Twice!! THat blue hole is not the pocket. LOL!!!
Anywho question is how far apart should we weld the batwings. I have a 28" eye to eye spring on order. I know we have to allow room for the shackles and perches but not sure how much. I bought the How to build a T for under 3000 e-book and it says in there to allow 7" of room. However I have researched elsewhere and the suggestion is for 5 inches.
What's the rule of thumb?

 

[Youngster]

Try to find another wishbone for that axle. One from a '37 to '40 Ford. also get a set of Model A axle spring perches. Slpit the bones and install the tie rod end or what ever you're using. Then set your spring 1 1/2" behind the axle. Mock this much up on your frame, set the spring perches thru the holes in the bones and weld them. I'll look for a picture.

Ron

 

[Youngster]

 

[RWENUTS]

I could do that youngster but i have a spring that's 28" wide and the holes for the wishbone's are 39" centre to centre. I have weld-on batwings too. I want to use the batwings and the spring. I just need to know how far apart to weld the batwings to the axle so I can use the spring I have.

 

[Francis Blake]

Jmho I would purchase another spring, in the final cost of your car it would not be that much more. I think you would like the way Youngster has suggested a lot more when it's finished.

 

[RWENUTS]

So many ways to go. Wouldn't be the first time I bought something and changed my mind. I do have access to a couple wider springs. One is a reversed eye spring.
Decisions! Decisions!!
Thanks guys!!!

 

[RPM]

So many ways to go. Wouldn't be the first time I bought something and changed my mind. I do have access to a couple wider springs. One is a reversed eye spring.
Decisions! Decisions!!
Thanks guys!!!

Have the spring assembled like it will go in the car. Pivot, shackle, spring, shackle, pivot. Now measure the length from the edge of the pivot that will bolt to the face of your bat wing, to the other face. Put the bat wings, that far apart. If the spring is 28" center to center and the shackles are 1.5" center to center. Then from the edge of the pivot to the center of the pivot hole is 1". Add all that up. 28+1.5+1.5+1+1= 33" between bat wings. But lay it all out and measure. No need to buy a new spring.

 

[Youngster]

RPM is right . That's how to figure the batwing distance.

The way I outlined will work with your 28" spring. When you layout the spring location, you will need to assemble the same parts, spring, shackle and perches. With the old parts you leave asmuch of the spring perch out the inside of the bones as you need. See above picture. I have been using this set up since '64 on several different car and it is bullit proof.

Tip #1; if possible set the frame mounts for the bones so the steering box sits right above it. This will eliminate 90 percent of the bump steer with this set up. The other 10 percent can be taken out with your toe in.

Tip #2; set your frame spring perch at 4 to 6 degrees up for your castor.

Any questions, bring them here for answers. It will also help others who are facing the same problems.

Ron

 

[RPM]

RPM is right . That's how to figure the batwing distance.

The way I outlined will work with your 28" spring. When you layout the spring location, you will need to assemble the same parts, spring, shackle and perches. With the old parts you leave asmuch of the spring perch out the inside of the bones as you need. See above picture. I have been using this set up since '64 on several different car and it is bullit proof.

Tip #1; if possible set the frame mounts for the bones so the steering box sits right above it. This will eliminate 90 percent of the bump steer with this set up. The other 10 percent can be taken out with your toe in.

Tip #2; set your frame spring perch at 4 to 6 degrees up for your castor.

Any questions, bring them here for answers. It will also help others who are facing the same problems.

Ron

With pivots on the front spring there is no need to turn the perch up for the caster. It will compensate thru the pivot. It won't hurt to turn the perch, but is not necessary.

 

[Youngster]

I should have been more specific, sorry.

With the old Ford axle and the Model A perches you will need to build for your caster.

Ron

 

[RWENUTS]

A little progress and more questions. My spring perch is welded on with 5 degrees up already. I want to use the cross steer set-up too. One question is how much do I spread the spring or do I. Other question is how much will the spring compress with engine trans etc installed. Using a 302 and c4. Presently with spring eyes centred in axle I have 5 inches between frame and tie-rod.
One Q for Youngster. If I use this spring and some split bones like you suggest can I use longer pivots and if so wouldn't there be a hard strain on them. There'd be about an extra 2.5" sticking out from the mount in the bones. Hate to have one shear off.
Thanks guys!!

 

[Youngster]

You appear to have a trailer spring. That won't work with the set up I discribed, too short. Find a Model A spring.

If you want to go back to the weld-on batwings then disassemble that spring and lay the pieces out as RPM discribed.

One word of caution, clamp the leaves together before you remove that center bolt. Then replace the bolt with a longer one before releasing the clamp.

No spreader needed. I assemble the spring after the axle and pieces are on the car. By using just the main leaf you will come pretty close to the ride hiegth with a bare chassis

Ron

 

[RWENUTS]

Thanks Ron. Re-thinking the whole process. Thinking split bones and a longer spring. Fortuneately I know a guy building a Model A. A good parts source.
I know about taking apart springs. Rebuilt some springs for a truck I built.
Thanks a bunch!!

 

[RWENUTS]

A little update. Found a Model A axle, unsplit bones, spring, spring perches and spindles along with a 33" wide spring with new spring perches and shackles all for 150 bucks.
Split the wishbone, built some new shackles for mockup that are 1.75" long and bolted it all together. The 33" spring is about a half inch short to bolt up so made some longer shackles. Bones will need to be pie cut and welded to get em up closer to the frame and give me clearance for the draglink. Still going to look for a 40's set of bones. Longer and better angled. And I still have the option of building it with a suicide axle using the old A spring too. Front may be sitting a bit high as it is.
Some pics too plus one of a small fish (sturgeon) we caught in the Fraser river up here. Makes you want to stay in the boat. LOL!!!

 

[Youngster]

You would gain some drop by redesigning the spring mount.

Ron

 

[RWENUTS]

Yup. Probably about 3-4 inches. I'll get the back end figured out, mount the motor and tranny and see how it sits.
Thanks Ron.

 

[sstock]

Very nice fish :thumb: , I didn't know they had them in the Frasher, thought they were all in the Columbia.

 

[RWENUTS]

Yup. In the Fraser all the way up to Harrison Hot Springs. That little fish is about half the size of the biggest one caught. IIRC the biggest one was over 11 feet long and around 700 lbs. Just a catch and release after tagging them though.

 

[butch27]

Man: That bucket is going to be nice. I'm into old style also.

 

[coachfhs]

RWENUTs...that is the best pic of you and your wife...great LOL