BBC or SBC?

[Quezzmo]

Hi All!

I just bought my first "starter" bucket. It was titled in '85 and had a 396. The last owner never drove it he just wanted the motor. The T-400 is still there. My question is should I switch to a small block or stick with a big block. I'm not a power junkie 325 to 375 hp is plenty for me. I'm more interested in cost, and keeping it running cool.

Your opinions are appreciated. I'll have many more questions later as this project car hasn't seen the streets since 1989.

Tom
Arlington, TX

 

[T-Odd]

Hi All!

I just bought my first "starter" bucket. It was titled in '85 and had a 396. The last owner never drove it he just wanted the motor. The T-400 is still there. My question is should I switch to a small block or stick with a big block. I'm not a power junkie 325 to 375 hp is plenty for me. I'm more interested in cost, and keeping it running cool.

Your opinions are appreciated. I'll have many more questions later as this project car hasn't seen the streets since 1989.

Tom
Arlington, TX

 

[akitagandy]

Hi All!

I just bought my first "starter" bucket. It was titled in '85 and had a 396. The last owner never drove it he just wanted the motor. The T-400 is still there. My question is should I switch to a small block or stick with a big block. I'm not a power junkie 325 to 375 hp is plenty for me. I'm more interested in cost, and keeping it running cool.

Your opinions are appreciated. I'll have many more questions later as this project car hasn't seen the streets since 1989.

Tom
Arlington, TX

Stay with the SBC you can get parts any where you are

 

[T-Odd]

Well, since I apparently don't have "permission" to edit my goof-up, here we go again...


My SBC might be around 250HP if I'm lucky and it'll spin tire all day long - Zero to 60 in under four seconds - and I have to launch at able half throttle to keep it from sitting still and making smoke.

Cost prohibits more hot rodded engine options for me right now, but it really isn't needed.

A little goes a LONG way in these things.

Cost? Go with the sbc, fifteen hundred dollars and you're rolling. Cool Factor? A Big Block sure looks awesome sitting between the rails.

 

[Northstar T]

if cost is a big factor, and it was already set up for the BBC, then I'd concider going that route. you can get them (usually out of trucks) fairly cheep these days since the LS motors are all the rage.

Russ

 

[tfeverfred]

Well, a long while back, Kit Car Magazine did a roadtest on some cars. One of them was a T Bucket. It had a SBF and put out 225HP on the dyno test. It ran a 12.48 in the quarter, once they got it to hook up. As T-Odd stated, it doesn't take much for these cars to git. So much for practical thinking. Now, if you're looking for bragging rights and padding the ego, you can't beat the visual impact of a big block sitting between the rails of these cars.

 

[VegasBruce]

Welcome Tom :thinkn: the cool thing about a T is you can run anything you want. I have a SBC in mine out of a '70 Camaro its never been apart and runs great. As stated a BBC has a lot of wow factor, as a bucket is more image than practicality anyway. For me its what can i get a hold of, that will look cool.

 

[rooster57]

My pal has a ZZ4 with all the whistles. its in a troupe carrier a 53 chevy belair. My bucket has a STOCK 305 from an 81 full size blazer turbo 350. From a stop light he has just quit tring he told me by the time he is half way through second he cant even read my tag. :thinkn:

 

[GT63]

Hi All!

I just bought my first "starter" bucket. It was titled in '85 and had a 396. The last owner never drove it he just wanted the motor. The T-400 is still there. My question is should I switch to a small block or stick with a big block. I'm not a power junkie 325 to 375 hp is plenty for me. I'm more interested in cost, and keeping it running cool.

Your opinions are appreciated. I'll have many more questions later as this project car hasn't seen the streets since 1989.

Tom
Arlington, TX

There's no replacement for displacement.

 

[Mike]

There's no replacement for displacement.

Amen. Walk softly and carry a lot of cubic inches. >>IF<< the car can get hold of the ground, that is.

I think people lose track of what it takes to build an honest 375 HP from 350 cubic inches. It can be pretty easy to freshen up a 350 and say it has 375 HP, but seeing is believing. I've found the guy that knows how much power he's making without ever having been in the same county as a dyno is the same guy that can set his ignition timing by ear. :thinkn: I think people tend to forget the RPM ranges their motors are going to be operating in, as well, and they confuse magic HP numbers and torque numbers.

All that being said, I think it all comes down to your personal preference. As others have mentioned, relatively tame small blocks are quite capable of being tire melters and a small-block T likely has a better chance of hooking the tires than a big block with just that much more torque.

 

[Quezzmo]

Lot's of great answers. And I'm all about the WOW factor and looking cool but I'm wondering which engine will run cooler, 350 or 454. I'd rather not mess with the motor mounts and stick with the BB as long as overheating won't be a battle I can't win. If I have it ready by July I plan to drive it in the 4th of July parade. Usually +/- 100 degrees.

 

[M16er]

Welcome neighbor! I'm over in Saginaw, TX (North Ft Worth).

As far as engine like you say, SBC and plenty of aftermarket parts available, if you aint going anywhere fast, I'd go with that.
When you go to insure it, you will get asked engine size, it it has Nitrous, Blower, etc etc, and it will have an impact on your rates.

 

[Screaming Metal]

Welcome neighbor! I'm over in Saginaw, TX (North Ft Worth).

As far as engine like you say, SBC and plenty of aftermarket parts available, if you aint going anywhere fast, I'd go with that.
When you go to insure it, you will get asked engine size, it it has Nitrous, Blower, etc etc, and it will have an impact on your rates.

Just depends on what you want to do....To get 375 horses from a smallblock isn't hard....its gonna cost you more than a bigblock, since they're closer to making that power in fairly stock form. All these T-Bucket guys here have given you at least 20 years of experience in just these few paragraphs they've wrote.

Going fast is a matter of power to weight ratios. As mike knows racing all all the guys with fast cars.....you put 300 horses in something that weighs about 1300 to 1800 lbs....its a handfull. Its a mindboggler if your pumpin' 500+ like BlownT or RPM, or some of the others.
If your car is already setup for a BB, you can drop in any motor in the BB family. A 454 with a warm streetable cam, a good 2x4 or a 3x2 intake and a good choice in headers.....your gonna have a respectable 450 horses on tap at least. Now, thats gonna be running no faster than 5500 to 6500 rpm's, fairly good idle and tons of torque from idle, because of all that rotating mass in the lower end.

You can do the same thing with a smallblock.....the power won't come in as early, and you won't have the torque....but you'll have alot of pull. You can setup a 500 horse smallblock fairly cheap.....

A easy analogy of these 2 scenarios is easy to visualize. One is a linebacker for a football team, heavier, stronger and geally fast on short sprints. BUT unlike humans....it won't tire easily. It isn't gonna get stressed lik a smaler motor will over time....all things being equal.
The other is a runningback, fast and agile, you can build up a cheap bracket motor and stick it in one of these little light cars and you'll probably run thru a set of tires in a month.....but it'd be fun! And expensive. Just depends on what YOU want.

All the guys here will support whichever way you go......since your car is already setup for a BB, your that much closer to going that way. BUT, all you'd have to do is motormounts and the trans thing to go SB.........

On yea.......WELCOME ABOARD! Its good to have ya here!

 

[Screaming Metal]

Let me add also, that a BigBlock I built for this fella in Tulsa....a 396 all cast iron motor. It was basically a 375 horse 396....the same motor that came in the SS Chevelles and Corvettes and some Camaros. He wanted something cheap, dependable, that'd run every weekend. His budget was 1000 bucks.

A airgap manifold, a old 750 doublepumper holley I threw together, big tube long collector headers, all this wasabout 400 bucks thru summit. The rest was spent on a fairly streetable rollercam and lifters, and I ported and flowed the heads. I also had a old Pete Jackson geardrive I threw in for free.....

Well.....first run on the dyno....no changes was a disappointing 430 horses, and it ran very rough. I pulled the carb....changed the powervalves and cleaned the airbleeds.....they were clogged from 20+ years of setting on a shelf.....she ran in at 485 horses at 6000. Played with the timing, got it to 495. Changed out the ignition, pulled the heads....took .030 off the deck and ran a sthinner head gasket....we got her up to 540 horses with some minor tweaking......an with very little expense.

This will kinda give you a idea od the power potential to dollar ratio.....

 

[Quezzmo]

I think that based on the information provided I'm going to go with a 454, but what I still need to know is which engine runs cooler a big block or a small block? I grew up around work trucks and the ones with the 454's always had huge radiators, but they never gave us any trouble. Our T-Bucket radiators can only be so big. When it's a 100 degrees or more outside and I'm driving in the local parade I don't want to have to pull over to let my hot rod cool down. How embarrassing would that be? I know there are other factors involved such as water pumps, type of fans, oil coolers, but those are things that you you mess with after you're having trouble. I'm trying to be pro-active and pick the engine that's going to give me the least grief in the Texas heat. I know mods make a difference so I'm asking, which engine do you think runs cooler, a stock 350 or a stock 454?

Thanks,
Tom

 

[GT63]

I think that based on the information provided I'm going to go with a 454, but what I still need to know is which engine runs cooler a big block or a small block? I grew up around work trucks and the ones with the 454's always had huge radiators, but they never gave us any trouble. Our T-Bucket radiators can only be so big. When it's a 100 degrees or more outside and I'm driving in the local parade I don't want to have to pull over to let my hot rod cool down. How embarrassing would that be? I know there are other factors involved such as water pumps, type of fans, oil coolers, but those are things that you you mess with after you're having trouble. I'm trying to be pro-active and pick the engine that's going to give me the least grief in the Texas heat. I know mods make a difference so I'm asking, which engine do you think runs cooler, a stock 350 or a stock 454?

Thanks,
Tom

I'm cooling a blown SBC with a Walker radiator and it stays pretty much at 185 and I'm in the DFW area.

 

[T-Odd]

Al Carpenter runs a BBC that isn't too hopped up, a tiny little mustang radiator and an inexpensive electric fan off ebay.

He does lots of highway driving and every parade they have in Springfield. Never heard him complain about temps.

But then again his engine isn't a 500hp build with a big bumpstick, it's pretty much a stocker with a couple of pretty looking goodies.

 

[Northstar T]

what grill shell are you planning to use? if you use a T shell I'd say use a $$Walker$$ radiator, but if you're using the larger model A or 32 shell then the 65-66 Mustang rad and a 16" E-bay fan should work fine for you.

Russ

 

[Quezzmo]

It already has a T shell and a radiator. I'm hoping it's a four row core, I forgot to look. I'm gonna pick it up saturday and I'll take some pics. I'm also picking up a 454 long block that I'm gonna rebuild stock with the exception of a little bit of a cam and a nice tall and shiny intake. I'll put a 6 qt pan on it and I'll us an external trans cooler. That oughta help with my temperature paranoia.

Thanks for the great comments,
Tom

 

[blownt]

its really up to you. Both sbc and bbc use the same motor mounts and bellhousing layout and the distance from CL of motor mount to bellhousing is the same dimension. Only difference is a big block is about 2" longer in front of the motor mounts. So your radiator/fan spacing will be more, especially if ya want a blower. You want show or go I'd go with a big block. A Walker Cobra Z radiator should be able to handle either.

Back in high school I had a 65 Chevy van with a 235 straight six. Got a cracked block so I decided I'd get a smallblock and stick in there (engine between the seats). Went to a junkyard and ended up getting a 396 for $50. Turned out the six had side motor mount spacer adapters out to the side V8 mounts. 396 slipped right in and still used the Six bellhousing and 3 on the tree shift and transmission. Had to get a bigger radiator though and made a sheetmetal scoop under the floor to get more air into it. Had to modify the engine cover too.