Body to tire clearance...
- Thread starter Zandoz
- Start date
I have an 8.8 out of a T-Bird turbo coupe. The suspension layout will be straight out of the T-bird, but with Mustang racing adjustable tubular control arms, and the coil-overs replacing the separate coils and shocks. Since you're saying yours is stiff with the 140 rate springs, I'll probably start with the 125s.
On the front I'm going with a mono-leaf spring and adjustable gas shocks.
I'm using air bags and a four bar setup on the rear with a 2 wheel drive S10 axle. Articulates well and rides pretty good. I don't get the harsh ride that others talk about. It does get rough when I find the bump stops, though.
I'd really love to go with bags right from the start, but being on a VERY tight budget dictates I take the much cheaper route of coil-overs. Once the expense of the initial build is over, switching to a bag set up is high on my wish list...not only for the ride, but also because I eventually want to pull a small trailer for my power chair.
My coil overs have 125lb springs I think and the ride is pretty stiff, and almost violent over the larger bumps. I lowered the rear tire pressure and its improved, but still rough. Short of possibly air ride, I don't think these cars will ever ride like a normal car. With a coil over setup, you need a minimum spring rate just to hold the car up. That will be your limitation. That and if its too soft, you will be bottoming out as mentioned.
Hotrod46
Member
Just a few details of my setup. I used Firestone 7076 bags. They have a rating of 1000 lbs each at 100 PSI. I don't have a pressure gauge in the car, but I did hook one up during construction. It took about 30 PSI to support the car. The bags I used are only about $60 - $75 apiece online. You could also look into the small bags that are under the cabs on some 18 wheelers. The are available at just about any big truck stop or big truck parts house.
I also fitted a home brewed auto leveling system using some aftermarket parts and a sensing switch from GM. That system works perfect. No matter what the load (even pulling a trailer), the car sits and rides right. The problem I've noticed with traditional steel springs is that if you spring for just the driver then you're too soft for 2 people. Spring for 2 people and you're too stiff for 1. Get it too soft and your suspension travel goes away when loaded compounding the ride problem.
If you have coil overs, you can jack up the car and bump the preload up or down, but that takes too much time. Most just find a compromise setting and go with it.
Air is the best all around compromise IMO. It just works.
You could get by with just the bags, some tubing, a few fittings and of course plain shocks. An onboard compressor is nice, but you could just fill them with a schrader valve and an air hose. You will need to run positive stop that limit the travel, both at full droop and compression. The bags can be damaged if you over extend them or fully collapse them.
Mike
I also fitted a home brewed auto leveling system using some aftermarket parts and a sensing switch from GM. That system works perfect. No matter what the load (even pulling a trailer), the car sits and rides right. The problem I've noticed with traditional steel springs is that if you spring for just the driver then you're too soft for 2 people. Spring for 2 people and you're too stiff for 1. Get it too soft and your suspension travel goes away when loaded compounding the ride problem.
If you have coil overs, you can jack up the car and bump the preload up or down, but that takes too much time. Most just find a compromise setting and go with it.
Air is the best all around compromise IMO. It just works.
You could get by with just the bags, some tubing, a few fittings and of course plain shocks. An onboard compressor is nice, but you could just fill them with a schrader valve and an air hose. You will need to run positive stop that limit the travel, both at full droop and compression. The bags can be damaged if you over extend them or fully collapse them.
Mike
The bottoming out is why I'm planning on the longer travel shock. I know that shorter wheelbases ride rougher than longer ones, but I just can't wrap my feeble brain around why these things have to ride any rougher than a normal vehicle of the same wheelbase. <shrug>
It's the inherent light weight and short suspension travel available with the basic design of a bucket. You can get a great ride in a dune buggy of the same weight and size, but they have lots of travel available. So you can use longer, more progressive springs and shocks. It's hard to get a good combination with a car that's basically just a large go kart.
Hotrod46
Member
These cars are usually very light (1500-2000 lbs). The sprung weight (anything held up by the springs) to unsprung weight (anything that moves with the wheels) ratio is high. The axles we use are sized for cars that weigh 2 to 4 times as much as our T's, but are usually required for the horsepower they need to handle. That is the main reason they tend to ride rough. A light car can't resist the movement caused by a bump, like a heavy car can. The shock load gets transferred through the springs to the frame and passengers.
Any binding in the suspension, like hairpins on a tube axle, will make the situation worse. Even with the limited travel most of these cars have, some binding occurs or the hairpins will flex. Either situation stiffens the suspension.
bobs66440 types faster than I do!
Any binding in the suspension, like hairpins on a tube axle, will make the situation worse. Even with the limited travel most of these cars have, some binding occurs or the hairpins will flex. Either situation stiffens the suspension.
bobs66440 types faster than I do!
If I do go with air, it will likely be with the Slam Specialties SS bags, and a simple schrader valve set up. I like the fact that the SS bags have internal bump stops to prevent the kind of damage you mentioned. The cost of the components are pretty much a wash between coils and air, because I already have nice set of adjustable gas shocks. The big drawback for me is the cost of the welding of the axle brackets...around here that would run close to as much as the rest of the components.
This is definitely going to be a light one...probably less than 1500lbs, and I'm shooting for around 1300. I'm hoping for around 10 lbs per horsepower with the little V6 I'll be running. It sounds like I should look for coil-overs with a stroke even longer than 6".
I've also been trying to minimize the unsprung weight...tube axle and aluminum wheels up front, and a Ford 8.8" instead of a heavier 9" out back. I looked for one of the rare Aerostar aluminum 7.5"s, but had no luck .
On the binding issue, I'm going with 4-links on both ends...parallel on the front, and triangulated on the rear...heims instead of bushings on the frame end of all the links.
Screaming Metal
Active Member
Well, I had the normal spring up front holding up a Cast Iron 460. To have enough spring to carry the front end, hell, it about beat me to death....I took away a leaf at a time till it wouldn't sag, then it bottomed out.e
Truck ran over the whole frontend of my car, so I had to op to do ellips all the way around. Just got thru doing it. I put enough to carry the car, it rode pretty good. I haven't blown it 99% apart for paint or powdercoating yet.
However, I did run 2 leafs off a S10 rear spring thats cut down to fit my situation. Its too light, but I replaced my front shocks with adjustable coilovers off a 1970 Suzuki motorcycle. Splitting the load between the two, the leaf springs and the motorcycle rear shocks....it rides like a sportscar now at low speeds, and like a Cadallic at high speeds....I was really, truely suprised....
Truck ran over the whole frontend of my car, so I had to op to do ellips all the way around. Just got thru doing it. I put enough to carry the car, it rode pretty good. I haven't blown it 99% apart for paint or powdercoating yet.
However, I did run 2 leafs off a S10 rear spring thats cut down to fit my situation. Its too light, but I replaced my front shocks with adjustable coilovers off a 1970 Suzuki motorcycle. Splitting the load between the two, the leaf springs and the motorcycle rear shocks....it rides like a sportscar now at low speeds, and like a Cadallic at high speeds....I was really, truely suprised....
Hotrod46
Member
That is true, but I think the difference is that most traverse leaf setups have some preload built in to help locate the axle side to side. That's why the springs can't simply be bolted in. They have to be stretched in some way to get the shackles to line up or in some cases the spring pack is assembled in place. The preload makes them stiffer. 1/4 elliptics don't have this.
Screaming Metal
Active Member
Yes, HotRod 46, I was a little skeptical, hey, I like the way they ride! It got the front of my car lower, went with a low profile OilP. I dropped the frontend 2 1/2"s....looks better. And Rides Way better.
I appreciate the photos You and ExJunk posted....helped alot....
But yea, if I ever do another car, it'll 1/4 Ellips as well....and I agree with 409T. I shouldn't make a difference. BUT, we're holding more of the spring against the frame and there isn't as much unsupported spring steel going toward the eye. I believe this changes the spring rate or rebound capabilities some....All I know is I feel a difference....
Because the shocks take more load, I'll have to remount my headlights, they jar some when I hit bumps...since the shock mounts are also were I mounted my headlights....makes it fun while driving at night....
I'm making some bellcranks like yours to get the shocks laying down against the top of the framerail instead of having them mounted to my radiator supports....
I appreciate the photos You and ExJunk posted....helped alot....
But yea, if I ever do another car, it'll 1/4 Ellips as well....and I agree with 409T. I shouldn't make a difference. BUT, we're holding more of the spring against the frame and there isn't as much unsupported spring steel going toward the eye. I believe this changes the spring rate or rebound capabilities some....All I know is I feel a difference....
Because the shocks take more load, I'll have to remount my headlights, they jar some when I hit bumps...since the shock mounts are also were I mounted my headlights....
makes it fun while driving at night....I'm making some bellcranks like yours to get the shocks laying down against the top of the framerail instead of having them mounted to my radiator supports....
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fluidfloyd
Active Member
If it were not for the fact that my options are so limited because of needing 4 lug wheels that do not look too modern, I'd not worry about it till that point in the build. So far the Vintiques 13 series smoothies are the only ones I've found that fit the bill...but the 15x8 4 bolt versions seem to be a rare commodity. Now that I'm comfortable that they are likely to work, I can be on the lookout for a good deal on them.
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