Don's bobtail

[SCCustomRides]

I was surfing the web looking for a nice example of what I was listing and so I googled bobtailed t-bucket and used the first pic I saw that matched what it is I am selling and so i continued to do my listing without thinking about it. As I sat here scrolling through old posts I came across the same pic and now I realize what car it is. It is Don's. I hope he won't be too mad at me for using it but to ease his pain I promise to donate $250 to this site if I sell a kit.
You can see the add <link removed>, I hope this does not upset you Don but if it does I can remove it if you would like.

 

[tfeverfred]

Honestly, whether he agrees or not (he no longer owns the car), you should remove it. The ad gives the impression that your kit will yield Don's results. Kinda like false advertising, IMO. And yes, I read your disclaimer. Most people tend to skip the fine print. You should use a pic of one of YOUR completed kits. If your kit is good, it will sell it self.

And a well done T Bucket or Hot Rod is NOT a rat rod! Repeating... A WELL DONE T BUCKET OR HOT ROD IS NOT A RAT ROD!!!

 

[sstock]

I was surfing the web looking for a nice example of what I was listing and so I googled bobtailed t-bucket and used the first pic I saw that matched what it is I am selling and so i continued to do my listing without thinking about it. As I sat here scrolling through old posts I came across the same pic and now I realize what car it is. It is Don's. I hope he won't be too mad at me for using it but to ease his pain I promise to donate $250 to this site if I sell a kit.
You can see the add here, I hope this does not upset you Don but if it does I can remove it if you would like.

Looks great. Might put in the add no tires or wheels too. Hope you sell a bunch.
Steve

 

[SCCustomRides]

Honestly, whether he agrees or not (he no longer owns the car), you should remove it. The ad gives the impression that your kit will yield Don's results. Kinda like false advertising, IMO. And yes, I read your disclaimer. Most people tend to skip the fine print. You should use a pic of one of YOUR completed kits. If your kit is good, it will sell it self.

And a well done T Bucket or Hot Rod is NOT a rat rod! Repeating... A WELL DONE T BUCKET OR HOT ROD IS NOT A RAT ROD!!!

This is not what I personally am building for myself and to build it would to sit on will do 2 things, take up space and will put my already high overhead over the top. That is why I am using an example and not an actual build. See the ratrod definition here

 

[SCCustomRides]

Looks great. Might put in the add no tires or wheels too. Hope you sell a bunch.
Steve

Wheels and tires are included, did I forget to post them? I will check, sorry I forgot to post them, thanks for pointing this out.

 

[jimbo01]

Honestly, whether he agrees or not (he no longer owns the car), you should remove it. The ad gives the impression that your kit will yield Don's results. Kinda like false advertising, IMO. And yes, I read your disclaimer. Most people tend to skip the fine print. You should use a pic of one of YOUR completed kits. If your kit is good, it will sell it self.

And a well done T Bucket or Hot Rod is NOT a rat rod! Repeating... A WELL DONE T BUCKET OR HOT ROD IS NOT A RAT ROD!!!

Where in the ad does the kit claim to yield Don's results? The ad is selling a style not an exact copy or replica. Even if SS Customs built the kit for someone that is in no way a guarantee that the final results would be as shown in the picture. I would think it would be an honor to Don that someone thought enough of his hard work and what he created was worth copying and using a picture (with his permission) of his fine car as an example. The Kookie Kar has been shown and used as an example for years and might actually be a part of why this type of car is still alive and thriving today. Once again, someone thought enough of that car to offer kits (like Speedway) for sale to Joe average to simplify the building process. Not only that, but a buyer may want to put a spin on things (as we all do) and put his or her own ideas into the car and personalize it to their taste. Maybe the ad should have a small disclaimer that states results may vary. By using the term rat rod in the ad he will get more hits and possibly appeal to another group.

 

[benT]

I agree with Fred...you should not use others finished cars (especially without permission) that are not based out what you are selling. It IS false advertising IMO, not to mention that Don owns the rights to the photo even though he has sold the car. FYI, the current owner has popped in here a few months ago and HE might have an opinion on having his car shown as advertising for someone product.

I'm not trying to be harsh, but what if you built a car for a customer and someone then took your photo of the completed car and used it to sell their T-bucket kit? You might be so happy about it. I know there are a few photos of my '27 floating around the net, and I would not take kindly to finding it on ebay being used to sell something without my permission.

That being said, I wish you well on your endeavor on selling T-kits.

 

[tfeverfred]

Where in the ad does the kit claim to yield Don's results? It doesn't, but it gives the impression. And I have NEVER seen The Kookie Kar used in an ad that did not give credit to Norm. If there is one, please post it.

And no matter how it's sugar coated, "Rat Rod", to a lot of hot rodders is a derogitory term. Your source for a definition was WIKIPEDIA. Please. ANYONE with an account can post on Wikipedia.

Isn't there a thread around here on using other peoples images and other crap like that? Seems like it's the same thing. Spirit uses thier builds as an example. So does Speedway and CCR. If it's okay to use anyones T, then use the Kookie Kar image or a Spirit image or a CCR image and see how long THAT flies.

The pic needs to be changed. At least until Don or the new owner gives his permission. It's really plain and simple.

 

[jimbo01]

Where in the ad does the kit claim to yield Don's results? It doesn't, but it gives the impression. And I have NEVER seen The Kookie Kar used in an ad that did not give credit to Norm. If there is one, please post it.

And no matter how it's sugar coated, "Rat Rod", to a lot of hot rodders is a derogitory term. Your source for a definition was WIKIPEDIA. Please. ANYONE with an account can post on Wikipedia.

Isn't there a thread around here on using other peoples images and other crap like that? Seems like it's the same thing. Spirit uses thier builds as an example. So does Speedway and CCR. If it's okay to use anyones T, then use the Kookie Kar image or a Spirit image or a CCR image and see how long THAT flies.

The pic needs to be changed. At least until Don or the new owner gives his permission. It's really plain and simple.

Here is the link for the Kookie Kar ad that I was using as an example or for reference. The ad doesn't once give credit to Norm nor does the article. I'm not saying it makes everything right or ok to use an image without credit, just offering the ad you requested.

http://www.tbucketplans.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/Speedway-Motors-Kookie-Kar-T-Bucket-Kit.jpg

I also agree that the ideal situation would be for SS Customs to build a car from their own kit and show a picture of the final results as an example. I would also think that SS Customs is putting a lot on the line by offering a kit for sale that has never been built by themselves using their plans and parts. We know this because they aren't using their own finished product and photos of such as a selling tool. Right?
I also agree that prior permission should be have been asked of Don and the new owner (as Ben suggested) for the use of their image in the ad long before it hit Ebay. As Ben pointed out, there are pictures of his car floating around the web. Anything that has been posted in a public forum can be found outside that venue through search engines. I found pictures of K.C Lee's paint thread prior to knowing he was on this site. I liked his flame job to the point that I printed it and have thought about using that picture as a guide for my own paint scheme. I have no plan to steal his paint job and market it for profit and it wasn't linked to this website.
I don't care for rat rods myself. I have seen a couple that caught my attention and got a second look. I don't want one in my garage nor sitting in my driveway. The term rat rod is the accepted vernacular of that type of creative expression. The birth of hot rodding was born with the creation of the T Bucket. I do not consider my T Bucket or anybody else's a rat rod. The people that own original model T's don't care much for T Buckets being called model T's either.

 

[tfeverfred]

An ad that's around 50 years old? Really?

 

[madmike8]

An ad that's around 50 years old? Really?

Laugh Fred he got you... You didn't say recent...

But on topic, kinda agree with you... I would of had some aspiring graphic artist do me up a representation... Could of even shown him Don's for inspiration. We needed a graphic for a car show/ tee shirt once. We paid an kid in school $100 and one of the Tees to do it for us...

I say p.m. Don and get his permission if you want to continue using his pic...

 

[RPM]

Ebay will pull that ad in just a few days. They do not allow email address in the ad. I know they pulled a bunch of mine.

 

[blyndgesser]

Would you buy a product that had not been tested by its vendor?

 

[SCCustomRides]

Wow, what responses. Didn't think it would cause such a controversy. I will pull them tonight and rework them. blyndgesser, The car will be preassembled and the design has been tested for well over 50 years. Most of my customers pay me to build their car not really knowing what the results will be or of all the different parts will work together, never had a problem that couldn't be resolved quickly.

 

[T-Test]

Problems resolved legally usually aren't quick. You need to read Mike's article on SOPA/PIPA

 

[guilld]

I believe there is some confusion on terms. I would consider Don's car a "retro rod" with the wide whites, painted steelies, and other details. Some rodders refer to any car that looks like Don's as a rat rod. The real rat rods do not even remotely resemble Don's car with rust, parts hanging on by a loose bolt and a prayer, rusted holes in the floor boards, and whatever you can imagine etc, etc. I would call them "trailer rats" because most can only be driven from a nearby motel to rod events. I am not a fan of trailer queens or trailer rats. Drive em!

 

[T-Odd]

guild, I'd call 'em "Junkyard Art Cars" - but back to the original post by SCCustomRides, I hate to be this way, but you might want to ask Mike if it's ok to link to your ebay business before linking, it's just the polite thing to do since you're using his site to refer to your business and you're not a sponsor of this site.

My opinion of your auction? Slightly misleading (and I'm trying to be nice), you should only offer pictures of YOUR PRODUCTS, never "something similar to what might happen if you" blahblahblahblah.You could suggest the customer search google for "bobtail T Bucket" but giving examples of other people's creations that were not from your kit is a bit misleading.

Hope this doesn't upset you, just letting you know how it seems.

 

[sstock]

guild, I'd call 'em "Junkyard Art Cars" - but back to the original post by SCCustomRides, I hate to be this way, but you might want to ask Mike if it's ok to link to your ebay business before linking, it's just the polite thing to do since you're using his site to refer to your business and you're not a sponsor of this site.

Your right T-Odd. He is using one of the sites SVs though, which is a great thing.

 

[T-Odd]

Agreed.

 

[donsrods]

Haha, I actually have no problem with it and find it a little flattering, but it might be misleading to any potential customers. Not sure how the new owner might feel though. Personally, I liked seeing the old gal in print again.

Don