John, you raise some interesting points and questions, so I am going to address them as completely and as honestly as I can do. And from here forward, we're going to take this thread back on-topic. Fair enough?
Are you gonna 86 Ben for agreeing with Fred?
Absolutely not, because Ben conducts himself like a gentleman. 180° difference between Ben and Fred. I heard what Ben had to say. Nothing offensive in it, at all. No, Ben is certainly not going to be 86'ed.
At times your skin is a wee bit thin.
Think so? Reckon that could have anything to do with your own perspective? Ever think that might because there might be down to you not knowing all the details, or seeing the full picture? I could make a lot of things a lot clearer for everyone, but that would just be making myself out to be the bad guy people like Fred want you to think I am. And you know, maybe, just maybe I'm not quite ready to show everyone my cards.
It's not one I possess, but they tell me patience is a virtue.
There are a lot of things happening around here that people like yourself are not always aware of. Yes, there are times I need to take out the trash. When someone like Fred wants to jump in and make an example of his foolishness, I figure I may as well jump in there to help them out. And, yes, there are times when I just don't care for everyone to know all the details about everything. When it becomes necessary for me to take out the trash, people think I'm over-reacting or I'm thin-skinned. That's OK, I can live through those times. I can't fault any of you for thinking that, when I am purposely withholding a lot details from you. How could I possibly be upset with it, when I am purposely not showing you my hand? People like Fred and Deckofficer don't like me, because I don't rush in to make the same mistakes they make. Fred thinks telling you I'm unemployed hurts me. But what is really bothering Fred is not knowing the things I know about him. Things I could easily blurt out to others. Things that would only make me out to be the same kind of lout or buffoon, if I were to blurt them out.
Fred cracks wise about how I might react if I were to find out people are infringing on my own copyright. But what Fred fails to realize is how I already know who is violating my copyright. And what's even more delightful, is Fred doesn't know how the plans, already in place, to respond to those individuals. Or the plans, already in place, to deal with the individuals who are guilty of continued publication of libel. Or the plans, already in place, to deal with the individuals who are guilty of tortious interference. See? Everyone thinks I'm thin-skinned and rushing to judgment. When I am really just watching my step, letting everyone else make all the mistakes and making sure my ducks are all in a row. Remember, John, vengeance is a dish best served cold. People like Fred are now wondering how many mistakes he's made and how quickly he can go find them to clean them up. He's really concerned about me mentioning libel, because he thinks he and others have been playing their silly games where I would never find out. I suppose it is not their fault for not understanding the abilities I have developed in the last three decades. Fred 'relaxes' on Web sites. Me? I listen to Web sites whispering to me, as I walk the places others don't even know exist. Yes, a handful of people are really enjoying themselves, but wait until they see how the story ends.
No, I've no reason to be thin-skinned, because I can relax in knowing karma is a real b*tch. What goes around comes around, and I've spent the last several years being real careful about what I put out there. Others, not so much.
Agree to disagree and be done with it.
Well, see, that goes back to us having different perspectives. I can easily agree to disagree and you might be surprised how many times I do just that, right here on these forums, almost every day of the week. When it comes down to others not being able to play their part, well, that's when people start thinking I'm thin-skinned. The next time you see me taking out the trash, stop and wonder if you're really seeing a knee-jerk reaction, or just the culmination of a failed project.
Who was the member with that low-bodied T? LegShowT, or something like that? He registered an account and almost immediately started ladling into another member over something I've quite forgotten. If I remember right, Gerry might have been the focus of the attack. VegasBruce (may he rest in Peace) clamped down on it, pretty quickly. Bruce opened a thread in the moderator's lounge about it and I just checked it. I was in a nasty mood and was ready to toss the leg show member out. But I held off. I even went so far as to contact the leg show member, privately, and asked him to stand down. I explained we had no problem with him expressing an opinion, but we were having a problem with how he was going about it. I explained if he would ease up, we could move forward, but if he kept up with the nonsense, I was most certainly going to ban him. He calmed down for a couple days and decided to act the donkey again, so I banned the account. He slipped back in here, under a different username, thinking I wouldn't catch onto his ruse. But he was acting like he had some sense, so I let him be. You see, all of that was happening without any of the regular members knowing about it. Heck, even the moderators weren't aware, for quite a while. But some people just can't learn, and it wasn't long before the guy was kicking up his heels again. So I gave him the boot. Everyone saw that and started thinking I was over-reacting and that I was thin-skinned. When I had really given the guy a couple of chances he certainly didn't deserve. Sometimes we have to distrust what we only think we are seeing.
It's not unusual for things to not always be what they seem around here. I do try to keep an ear to the ground around here, and I have often taken members' suggestions on board. Fred thinks I'm disqualified to operate this forum because I cannot drive my T-Bucket, but this forum is not my first. I bought my first modem, way back in 1981. I've haunted more dial-up BBSes and more forums than I could ever begin to count. I've moderated more forums that most people will ever visit. I've admin'ed and co-admin'ed more forums that most people will ever join. I last counted a couple years ago, but at that time I was actively participating on 209 forums, and I've joined several more since then. For the record, in the last 31 years, I've only ever been threatened with a banning on one (1) occasion. Being the wise guy I am, I dared the admin to ban me and he did. I guess he showed me, aye?
But that's it - I've only been banned from one forum, ever.
I've witnessed what it takes to build up communities and I've witnessed what can easily shatter communities. And while I'm always going to be open for suggestions, this site is not a democracy. A few years back, a member identified me as a 'benevolent dictator', and I try to hold true to that. But when enough becomes enough, or when someone steps over a line, I lose my benevolence whilst I take out the trash. And, for the record, there are a total of 11 user accounts that have been banned from this site (not counting the thousands of spam registrations).
There's the sum total of the banned users list and you can see the date and time in the lower-right corner.
Of those 11 accounts, the leg show guy accounted for 2 of them and Deckofficer accounted for 3 of them, which means we've only banned 7 people since October 2006. (It takes a really 'special' person to be banned from the same forum more than once, aye?
) I cannot think of any other forum I've ever been associated with that had such a miniscule number. I've moderated sites where as many as 20 or 30 would get banned in a single day. Our average ban rate is at 1.16 members per year, so I think those numbers will kind of chase away suggestions I am thin-skinned or over-reacting.
John, I even heard your suggestion about a free-for-all forum, where anything goes. The only problem with that is you always have the over-compensators, like Fred, who don't understand the difference between debate and vituperation. When I challenged Fred to point out where I had ever advocated the violation of any law, or where I was upset with the stupid rich owning the finer things of life, he responded by talking about my financial difficulties and slurring this Web site. You know, the silly and redundant' site he's flitted in and out of for 5+ years? The site he's submitted 3200+ posts to? I have sh*t all over MY lawn? And it took Fred how long to come to that conclusion?!?
Instead of refuting me, Fred showed us what kind of man he is and he drug my personal life into it. If I genuinely felt people could openly debate with resorting to invective, calumny and vilification, we would have had a free-for-all forum years ago. I participate on a lot of sites that have them, but the mortality rate on those sites is really high. Most people cannot confine debate to the issue at hand, they have to make it personal. I agree with you, at first blush it seems like a really good idea. But there are just too many Freds in this world and it would never have a happy ending. Politics are an integral part of our lives and as long as people are not arguing particular candidates, particular parties or particular elected officials, I can easily turn a blind eye to it.
No need to invite Fred anywhere. I've not suspended his membership. I've greatly altered his forum privileges, but he can still come here and post if he wants. It's going to be a challenge for him and to be quite honest, I don't think he's man enough to meet the challenge. In spite of what Fred thinks of himself, he's not up to besting any challenges in his life, he can only respond to them with mockery and mean-spirited invective. Any posts Fred submits will all be moved into a moderation queue that will require a member of the forum staff to read through it and make sure it does not violate any of the forum rules. If Fred learns how to play well with others, then his posts will be approved and everyone will see them. If he chooses to disrespect any member of this site (and yes, I am a member of this site), then his posts will be moved to a forum where they will be held, should legal action require them.
I suppose I should also explain the reason I challenged Fred. What you failed to see is there was a secondary motive in my challenging him to put up or shut up. I knew he was going to resort to attacking me, rather than facing the facts. I've watched Fred attack others, the very same way, so I knew what was going to happen. Like I said, I just needed to let out a little leash and he would expose himself for what he really is. This isn't the first time Fred has been down this road, it's just the first time he's failed to get his anticipated pass. The last time Fred urinated on my floor, I decided enough was enough. Fred presented his backside, yet again, so I seized the opportunity and booted it.
So if you think I'm being thin-skinned, that's OK. But I want you to know if someone comes along and alleges you violate any kind of law, my skin will be just as thin and I will paddle that person's backside the same way I've paddled Fred's. If someone comes along and outs your personal situation the way Fred thinks he outed my own, my skin will be just as thin and I will paddle that person's backside the same way I've paddled Fred's.
I've always been honest with everyone and I've no need to stop. I've always been amazed at how well-behaved the members of this site have been. From the very beginning, nearly everyone has been on best behavior and the forum staff members really appreciate that. More than you can know. Unfortunately, we've had a few bad apples, but I learned 25+ years ago to waste no time in culling the bad ones out of the bunch. I have never and will never hide the fact I am tossing someone out of here. And I say that for two reasons. It shows the guid yins I am not going to allow others to spoil things for them and it also shows everyone I have no problem tossing people out of here, not even a member with 5 years and 3200+ posts. To be quite honest, my knee-jerk reaction was to ban Fred, outright. But I've watched Fred for a few years and in a few places and I knew that would just load his gun for him. He's already off whining and whinging about me and this site to anyone who will listen, but at least he can't whinge about me not allowing him to have his say. He's not finished ranting at me yet, so I'm graciously leaving the door open for him. I'm not the only who sees him making a fool of himself, so I'm leaving him a little leash to run about on. You see, I've also been at this long enough to know a bit of commotion can do wonders for participation numbers, so why not use my newest circus clown to draw in some more visitors? I wasn't born at night, you know?
If Fred doesn't live up to my expectations in the next few days, I'll go ahead and ban his account, but for the time being, I'm game to see what he can do to help us out.
And we're back to the discussion of un-Constitutional copyright laws...
This is the same Obama who was recently reminding We the People about he was going to create surplus capital with the troop draw down in the Middle East, without realizing we all knew the Middle East military was being funded by borrowed dollars.
