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No wonder they filed for bankruptcy

LarryH

Member
I've been having a few issues with the 327 in my T-Bucket so i decided to just replace it with a new GM 350 crate engine. Nothing fancy just the base 190 hp engine. I figure with the Weiand intake and Edelbrock carb it should scoot along fairly well. I'll stuff the 327 in a corner and rebuild it later and drop it back into the T-Bucket or drop it into my '56 Chevy.

Since i like to help support the local economy whenever i can i called up the local GMC and Chevrolet dealers for a price on their 190 hp base 350 crate engines. The GMC dealer wanted $2,393 plus tax. The Chevy dealer wanted $2,057.21 out the door. I can get the same engine from Jegs for $1,672 delivered. A few bucks more from Summit.

I just can't figure how an aftermarket company can sell the same engine so much cheaper than the manufacturer. Needless to say, my local dealers won't be getting my money.
 
The more I hear or see ads using the term "crate engine", the more I'm inclined to believe the term.... OK Paris, its a phrase not a term.... the phrase "crate engine", the more I believe the definition has expanded to include about anything someone throws together and ships on a pallet.

I'd like to believe a "purchsed" engine from GM is in fact a complete all-new-GM-parts-assembly. That means a new standard size crank. I also tend to believe "purchased" engines from other sources range from; a worthwhile selection and assemby of new aftermarket components at the top of the list, to junk thrown together and painted at the bottom of the list and who knows what in between.

While I wouldn't buy a "purchased" engine, if I were to do so, I would want a build list in writing prior to purchase telling me the manufacturer and part number for each and every item in the motor. Does that sound too annal? Not to me. The diference being, my money v. your money.

By the way, did the GM dealers quote you with your owner discount? After all we own the company...... I'm still waiting for my call from them with my new free thank you Mr. Taxpayer Corvette.
 
I have used the local Vo-Tec as my engine builder on the last 4 engines. There is a small fee and I pick the parts I want and pay for them. The last one, a 283 SBC, cost me $758. They also rebuilt a 350 trans for $132.

Ron
 
I have used the local Vo-Tec as my engine builder on the last 4 engines. There is a small fee and I pick the parts I want and pay for them. The last one, a 283 SBC, cost me $758. They also rebuilt a 350 trans for $132.

Ron


I don't know what a "Vo-Tec" is. but I want one.
<
vocational school???

Cheers,
Russ
 
Vocational Technical school around here they're called career and technology centers And I didn't know they would rebuild mtors and trans for the paying public that's good to know
 
Hi Larry,

I would recommend getting the actual part number of the engine you are wanting and compare the prices of the part number. This should give you an “apples to apples” comparison on the price. Don’t forget to take the cost of shipping into consideration also. When a dealership gives you a price, it should already include the cost of shipping to their dealership. If you are buying from a mail order business, there is a good chance you will have a shipping charge.

I have a Chrysler/Dodge/Jeep dealership and run into this on occasion. Like Old Rotor Flap mentioned, the term “crate engine” can mean almost anything. We have run into places selling a “Mopar Crate Engine” where the block is a new block, but the crank is used and is now turned .010, the rods have been resized, and the pistons and rings are aftermarket. The advertising sometime shows the factory logo because of the new block. Many times people assume that they are buying an actual OEM crate engine. The price is less because a rebuilt motor should cost less than a new motor.

Another thing to look at is the warranty. Whatever engine you decide on, get a written copy of the warranty and make sure you read it before you buy your engine. If it is an actual GM crate engine, there should be a written warranty from GM that should be covered by any GM dealer in the USA.

Bill
 
The weather was beautiful when i woke up this morning (mid 60's and nice and sunny) so i decided to take a short cruise in the T-Bucket.

I just got off the phone with Jegs and was given a price of $1,672.98 delivered to my door. These are new, not rebuilt, factory OEM GM engines. They have a 36 month/36,000 mile warranty.
 
I just can't figure how an aftermarket company can sell the same engine so much cheaper than the manufacturer. Needless to say, my local dealers won't be getting my money.

The dealer is not the manufacturer. They have to buy their stuff from the corporate giant just as everybody else does. Unfortunately, at least with regards to Ford stuff, most, if not all of the "others" can buy at the same price if not cheaper than what the dealer can buy it for. Hard to believe I know, but absolutely true. Combine that with a warehouse that may or may not open to the public (I'm speaking of a local irritant in my neck of the woods) and the public's stupidity on the most basic procedures in repairing cars (meaning the warehouse doesn't have to explain how to check continuity in a wire, etc.), they then only need to keep help on hand that can match this part with that invoice and nothing more which then undercuts the dealer. I mean, don't most people expect the dealer to have all the answers, since it's their product? What I mean is, when you're standing at the Napa counter and you ask about the power steering hose or the air conditioner compressor and you ask a question, you don't expect that person to know everything there is to know about that part. But if you ask the same question at the dealer, don't you expect more from them? Isn't that worth something?

Pretty soon, we won't have a local dealer because everyone is buying from online places. The only way Jegs/Summit can stay in business is due to volume. $8 an hour help doing nothing but pulling and shipping orders, while the parts guy down the street that's been doing it for 20 years has to try and explain how to use a $2 test light and not get paid for the info and smile after the slap in the face once he tells the customer the part is $200 dollars, when O'reillys has it for $25. And we all know that parts aren't of the same quality, right? Except, now, the dealer has to compete (somehow) with O'reilly's selling the same Ford part, cause they bought it direct from Ford. How many of you are tired of the teenagers manning the counter at your local parts house? Could they employ 20 year veteran automotive experts and pay them what they're worth while still selling everything as cheaply?

I'm getting a little off subject here, and if you couldn't tell, LOL, this is a subject a little dear to me. Maybe it's the wave of the future, and we just don't know it yet. The end of dealerships as a whole. You'll order your car online and pick it up at Sam's club. If you need routine maintence, you'll just go to Jiffylube/Valvoline/Walmart, and if you have warranty work, you'll have to go to Sears, Firestone or Pepboys. The small independent shops will not be able to keep up with all the technology, and the service information will become proprietary.

It's just that, and to be more to the point of the original poster, the Jegs/summit places have basically killed the majority of the speed shops around here. People were going into the speed shop to check out/see/fondle the part in question, then going home and ordering it from whomever at a discount. Hard to maintain a decent inventory and keep the doors open that way. I can't say you should purposely pay $300-$600 more for something just because, but some would argue it's something similar to the argument of Walmart moving in with cheap stuff and putting the mom-n-pop operations out of business. Heck, I've done the same thing with the last 3 or 4 motorcycle helmets I've bought. Go to the local shop that has the $700 helmet on display, check it out, try it on, then go home and buy it off ebay for $500. Maybe we reap what we sow?

Edit: While I can't say it's true with GM, we have also run into places selling our own Ford reman engines below what we can buy them for from Ford. Doesn't seem fair, does it?
 
I won't ever say every dealer is on the up and up, cause they aren't. But you kind of understand what I'm saying right?
 
Mr. T Bucket, I not only hear you, but I understand what you're saying and I feel your pain.

I'm within about 7 weeks of being able to celebrate 25 years employment with the same company. If we're still here in 7 weeks.

The high-performance automotive aftermarket was turned upside down by the mail order houses. And saying that says a lot, as Summit and Jegs are also two of my larger customers. But we've always held tough and those two purchase parts from me at the same price as any other warehouse distributor does. Where some companies (and believe, I could damn sure name names) have allowed themselves to be turned out, we've held the line.

I've been working automotive parts for over 36 years now. 27 of them in high-performance. I know what it takes to unlock the doors each morning. And we are not going to slowly run ourselves out of business by trading dollars. A large warehouse near me is part of a company I worked with some 33 years ago and one of the old-time salesman has admitted to me they sell one particular capacitive discharge ignition box for exactly $1 less than they pay for them. Just to remain competitive in today's market, they lose money on a part.

How many of you are willing to lose money on your wage, just to say you have a job? Gee, it sure got awful quiet in here.

My attitude has become one of indifference. If I can't turn a product 4-5 times a year, I simply cannot afford to stock it. If somebody wants to go to a mail-order house to order something, I am not going to fault them for trying to save money. But when the part they ordered is broken or not what they really needed, I don't care. If they can't get their new carburetor to idle quite right, my suggestion is to call the minimum wage order-taker they purchased it from and get their tech advice there. When you come in here and want me to sort what cam/intake/carb/torque convertor combination you need, I can do that. But don't waste my time by asking me to give you the part numbers. Let the minimum wage order-taker sort the right parts for you.

I've a local customer that never comes to purchase anything from me, unless it's 4:55 on a Friday evening. After I sit here and wait for him to arrive 20 minutes after closing, then he wants to know if he can charge the part until next week. And then a month later I'm on the phone trying to get paid. But when he needs parts any other time, he pulls out his wish-book and mail orders them. Apparently the mail order houses offer zero percent financing too? Aye. Right.

I can always guarantee when I will see Johnny Mail-Order and his Wish-Book-Mobile. When summer comes and he comes in here wanting me to donate cash and/or product to support his car show. :rolleyes:

It's a two-way street. Well, at least it used to be...
 
LarryH, I bought GM P/N 10067353 from Jegs about five or six years ago to replace the 350 in my bucket. Stock intake and Q-Jet, not hot rodded at all yet.

It has torque and will get you scooting down the road. I still haven't rebuilt the old 350 or the 327 I have in the garage.
 
Large warehouses like Summit and Jegs buy engines at truckload prices direct from GM. The minimum truckload price used to be a $100,000.00. They can sell for less but you have shipping on top of that price. A GM dealer gets no discount on parts. The bean counters at GM screw their dealers over every chance they get! I'm a former GM parts manager so this is no BS. At least this is the way it was last time I talked with some of my friends still working in GM parts.
 
May as well have your engine rebuilt, balanced and Blue printed by a recommended Engine builder near you, then you get what you want and save money...
I called my dealer about 3 weeks ago and they stock the 290hp. long blocks and are just a little over $1800.00
 
That sounds like a plenty fair price.

It's getting to the point where trying to find a 'heavy' 350 block is getting tough. And if you can find one, it's likely been bored to a thousandth of its life. Clean it, align hone it, deck it, bore it, hone it and wash it. You're already knocking at the door of $500.

Now find a good set of heavy heads, placing great emphasis on the word 'good'. We used to get fellows dragging in a sets of heads they had picked up from Joe Smooth-talker for 'only' $400. Wave at the deck surfaces and they would wave back. Knock the springs off and measure guide wear with a county fair yardstick. Valves with scarcely any margin left, so sharp you could shave with them. Seats sunk clear to China. There's another $500, by the time you get them back together.

Grind the crank, resize the rods and you're pushing close to $200.

We've all but spent $1200 and haven't purchased that first part. And since we're looking at new pistons, add another buck-fifty to balance the rotating assembly. Check bearing clearance, set ring end gaps, R&R pistons on the rods and you're close to another hun. How big is that camshaft? Check piston-to-valve clearance and degreeing the cam is close to another hun, unless the pistons need flycut for valve clearance.

Are you going to buy an ACME engine kit? You know, the one with the cast, dished pistons, the .010 over cast rings, the hard-faced bearings and the no-name gasket set with the steel shim head gaskets? Or are you going to use real parts?

15-20 years ago, we would do up stock 350 long blocks for exchange sales. I had GM dealers buying them from me, because they were getting more bang for their buck than they could with the Target program. When it finally got to the point you could purchase a crate motor from GM cheaper than you could properly go through a stock long block, we gave it up.

However there are still those people that feel a trip to the quarter car wash to wash the block, running a ball hone through the cylinders and using a fresh set of rings and bearings is rebuilding an engine. :wow: One gets what one pays for, every time.
 
I hear you Mike. I think that's why so many guys are going to crate engines.
They're a great bang for the buck.

My wife works for NAPA so i get a really good price on parts so my main reason for going the crate engine route was i just didn't feel like tearing it down and carting everything to the machine shop. I work nights (1:45 pm to 12:15 am) and i just didn't feel like stretching the process out any longer than i had to.
 

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