Steering Box Location...
- Thread starter Screaming Metal
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Screaming Metal
Active Member
...or you could use a R&P hidden in the front crossmember, with a steering rod back to a double U-joint to the column:
Hey...Not Bad! Thats a pretty innovative idea! I wonder if the turning radius would be better with the R&P???? Have you done this, or have seen it done???? Yes, I do have the corvair box....but was wanting all you guys opinions.....
I've read on the steering sections that some of the cars have steering issues.....turning sharply....and I'm depending on ya'll experience building hese things.....
I build stuff that goes well over 200 MPH in the 1/4.....the sharpest turn I gotta worry about is getting it coming back on the return road to the pits.....and thats helped out by the guys pulling the cars with 4 wheelers.... Ha!
EX JUNK
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Screaming Metal
Active Member
What about the toe change when you hit a bump? I'll bet the toe changes more than a 1/4". That could be your handling problem at speed.
In order for a R&P to work correctly on a straight axle the rack would have to be mounted to the axle. So it would move up and down with the axle. Then you would have to have u joints and a slip connection in the steering shaft.
In order for a R&P to work correctly on a straight axle the rack would have to be mounted to the axle. So it would move up and down with the axle. Then you would have to have u joints and a slip connection in the steering shaft.
Screaming Metal
Active Member
I see what your saying Ron, and that is a good point! I'd been researching that problem.....gone to one of the places that makes rack and pinions for dunebuggies and streetrods....they didn't have a answer....but evidently the Honda that the R&P came off of had a draglink and idler arm type of setup.
In my post when I said about mounting the R&P in the front tube....I was thinking of running a single arm to drivers side wheel, then having a cross rod going to the other one. But, if I did that....whenever I hit a bump....there would be a slight 'jerk' in the steering wheel.
However....if I mount the R&P to the straight axle....I'll have to have a splined shaft on the very last rod going to the frontend so the rod could travel up and down with the front axle as it goes in also.
I wouldn't care for a T with a draglink on it! Ha! I could afix it directly to the front axle and make it a floater....be kinda unique....
Nope Ron, that is completely wrong. I have posted on this subject many times. And I have went to a real steering pro for answers (as in a friend of a friend that designs steering systems for the oem, and has written several SAE tech papers on steering designs, and holds many us patents for steering box and pump designs). To bad that other T bucket website doesnt have a decent search function. Because this topic has been Beaten to death over there.
A rack can work just fine on a straight axle car. The theory that the axle moves straight up and down, and the ends of the rack move in an arc, causing toe change, sounds good in theory. But in reality, the axle does not move straight up and down. For the axle to move straight up and down, you have to hit a bump with both front wheels, at the same time. Highly unlikely. In reality, you will have one front wheel hit a bump, or one front wheel fall in a pot hole. And in that instance, the axle is not going straight up. It is pivoting around the center of the transverse front leaf spring. And moving in an arc... Just as the end of the rack is doing.
Back around 1999-2000 Me and my father built his first T. It was my first T bucket build. He had an idea of a tube frame car, torsion front suspension, and rack and pinion steering. So off we went building it. As I posted pics on that other T website, people stated telling me it wouldnt work, it was dangerous... one guy even accused me of trying to kill my father. So we went into this very carefully. And we were having no effects the others warned about. The car worked beautifully. We hauled the car half way across the country to the NTBA nats in omaha. All the shit talkers were totally silent when the car was there, Done, and I had the keys in my hand offering rides. Hmmmmmmmmm. strange how that went. But I refused to believe that I was a genius that could do what no other could, And that Is how I ended up in touch with a steering engineer at Visteon. I sent pics, we emailed a lot, learned alot about the real world design dynamics. And how the pros do it.
But it was with my fateher that we found the real reason people have problems with racks. remember the car we built had torsion bar front suspension. No transverse spring. The problem isnt with toe change... it is with the deflection of the shackles. The rack pushes one side, and pulls on the other, shifting the whole axle over. Put on a panhard bar, and the issue is solved.
Screaming Metal
Active Member
OK LKE, so you think if I go the R&P setup....I could go the each end of the rack with a tierod to each wheel, and just add a panhard bar from the front of the frame to the axle....and all should be fine?
Now the steering and suspension stuff is outside my field of expertise.....I can make the little shit go 200 mph+, no problem cause thats what I do for a living, been doing it all my life.....
Hey....ya'll the guys I'm coming to for your opinions cause I'm building mine....ya'll been driving ya'lls for upteen years and know the steering, brake and suspension stuff.
I'm on a quest for knowledge....tell me more!!!!
Oh, and by the way....great craftsmanship!
Now the steering and suspension stuff is outside my field of expertise.....I can make the little shit go 200 mph+, no problem cause thats what I do for a living, been doing it all my life.....
Hey....ya'll the guys I'm coming to for your opinions cause I'm building mine....ya'll been driving ya'lls for upteen years and know the steering, brake and suspension stuff.
I'm on a quest for knowledge....tell me more!!!!
Oh, and by the way....great craftsmanship!
Its not a big toe change. I forget what the numbers were, that was close to 10 years ago,but it was very small. I do remember that at that same time I had an S10 blazer with air ride. I could raise and lower the front end, and check the toe change at any height. And it had way more change than this did.
And thru it all.... the car was built, driven for 6 years I think ? And never had a bit of bump steer or any problems. Rack and pinions have better leverage ratios, and provide much easier steering.
And to address the rack mounted to the axle talk. A sklip joint in the steering is a terrible idea. It may sound good, and maybe even work good in the shop. But once the car is going down the road, bouncing, in reality, its not a good move. If you choose to do it this way, take the time to do it right, and put your u joint in the spot where the steering shaft pivots in the same arc as your suspension does. It will work smooth, and last a long time.
Screaming Metal
Active Member
. A slip joint in the steering is a terrible idea. It may sound good, and maybe even work good in the shop. But once the car is going down the road, bouncing, in reality, its not a good move.
Yes....I'm more inclined to fasten her snugly to the front of the fram and let that axle float....I could do it the other way....but its best to do it right....I won't care none at all trying to get to the Bash and running off the top of a mountain with Rooster behind me. Fo one, he never would let me live it down! Ha!
Yes....I'm more inclined to fasten her snugly to the front of the fram and let that axle float....I could do it the other way....but its best to do it right....I won't care none at all trying to get to the Bash and running off the top of a mountain with Rooster behind me. Fo one, he never would let me live it down! Ha!
Screaming Metal
Active Member
I'm on coffee detail this morning....walking around the shop tryingto stay warm....thinking about all this mounting biz......
Gonna go stand by the heater and suck down another donut.....Hum....
Screaming Metal
Active Member
Hum....that top pic looks suspeciously like a race car frame..... 
uch:
uch:
Screaming Metal
Active Member
At my age, its my drug of choice.
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