T bucket - A chassis
- Thread starter Retroboy
- Start date
Ted Brown
Member
People used to do a lot of things that were not found to be safe... I would think by now that most folks know that Model A frames were not made to be welded on... I you will notice that every part that attaches to the frame is riveted, not welded... I have found that welding A frames in time will stress crack, as I believe they were kind of a spring steel... I myself would much rather use late model steel that is a rectangle tubing, and made to be welded.. Much safer, after all the life you save my be mine :scream: or your's 
Tony, Old school is cool but really has a lot of short comings. Setting up that A frame for use today is a chore. Back in the day, as they say, safety was not a real concern. Most often these cars where used for short around town bursts till the law saw you and then it sat till you could pay the tickets (voice of experience).
The major draw back was that the body wasn't wide enough to channel over the frame at the cowl so you would have to cut reliefs in the lower cowl panels. Chances are the frame you start with are pitted to half the original thickness in many spots. You could "pinch" the rails, add new cross members, kick the back and box the whole thing. Now what do you have? An 80 year old frame with enough time and effort in it to have built a whole chassis from new tubing.
Don't mean to rain on your parade but, well .......
Ron
The major draw back was that the body wasn't wide enough to channel over the frame at the cowl so you would have to cut reliefs in the lower cowl panels. Chances are the frame you start with are pitted to half the original thickness in many spots. You could "pinch" the rails, add new cross members, kick the back and box the whole thing. Now what do you have? An 80 year old frame with enough time and effort in it to have built a whole chassis from new tubing.
Don't mean to rain on your parade but, well .......
Ron
Phil55
Member
Well, I did it but the pictures went the way of the car in the divorce...
I boxed the frame 'inside' the channel about 1/4". It welded OK when I used a high enough setting. I also welded up all the rivit holes and ground those down. Used POR 15 to paint it and it came out pretty good. You are going to have to go with the 'high boy' look. There isn't enought room to channel the body over the frame.
I boxed the frame 'inside' the channel about 1/4". It welded OK when I used a high enough setting. I also welded up all the rivit holes and ground those down. Used POR 15 to paint it and it came out pretty good. You are going to have to go with the 'high boy' look. There isn't enought room to channel the body over the frame.
well thanks for your reply's. I better explain with a bit more detail.
I agree with you 100% about building a chassis however here in Australia we have tough registration and building laws to protect us from ourselves (nanny state) and we are effectively unable to build a new bare frame - we can but we have to involve an engineering signatory and the real crunch comes then because it's deemed to be a new car and so has to comply with all the current year design requirements - known as Australian Design Rules (ADR's). This means it has to meet current year emissions have anti lock brakes, air bags, traction control and etc etc for ever. Hardly a Flathead powered bare bones ride. All the '32 Ford boys are OK 'cos they just claim there repo 'rails are original Henry Ford steel.. Reading a bit on various forums and a couple of mags it looks as if you blokes are starting down this path in some states as well.
It's not all bad because we've had to please these self serving bureaucrats for a long time and we have a volunteer body working for us called the Technical Advisory Committee (TAC) and they liaise with the registration and licensing people and we can get cars on the road.
We have a long tradition going back to the '50's of building our own stuff at home maybe with a couple of mates pitching in every so often and we have hundreds of cars on the road on original frames. They will have had decent cross members fitted, been boxed had decent suspension and steering and do thousands of miles on our less than perfect roads each year. Interestingly enough a lot of the new cars built on reproduction rails with new steel bodies and the like don't seem to do any miles under their own power? Afraid of a little road rash??
So that's where I'm at - I want a car on the road and it has to be on an original frame. I have a pretty good Model A frame I'm going to use. I will be replacing the front cross member with an aftermarket one currently hanging in my shed. That will narrow up the front and lower it a couple of inches, I will also pull out the centrecross member trim a bit off it and tack it back in then I will put a small step in the back and remove and refit the rear cross member so I will now have a narrower frame.
Then on with the rest and like I said I'm looking for you all to chime in at anytime with advice,suggestions and criticisms.
Cheers
Tony
I agree with you 100% about building a chassis however here in Australia we have tough registration and building laws to protect us from ourselves (nanny state) and we are effectively unable to build a new bare frame - we can but we have to involve an engineering signatory and the real crunch comes then because it's deemed to be a new car and so has to comply with all the current year design requirements - known as Australian Design Rules (ADR's). This means it has to meet current year emissions have anti lock brakes, air bags, traction control and etc etc for ever. Hardly a Flathead powered bare bones ride. All the '32 Ford boys are OK 'cos they just claim there repo 'rails are original Henry Ford steel.. Reading a bit on various forums and a couple of mags it looks as if you blokes are starting down this path in some states as well.
It's not all bad because we've had to please these self serving bureaucrats for a long time and we have a volunteer body working for us called the Technical Advisory Committee (TAC) and they liaise with the registration and licensing people and we can get cars on the road.
We have a long tradition going back to the '50's of building our own stuff at home maybe with a couple of mates pitching in every so often and we have hundreds of cars on the road on original frames. They will have had decent cross members fitted, been boxed had decent suspension and steering and do thousands of miles on our less than perfect roads each year. Interestingly enough a lot of the new cars built on reproduction rails with new steel bodies and the like don't seem to do any miles under their own power? Afraid of a little road rash??
So that's where I'm at - I want a car on the road and it has to be on an original frame. I have a pretty good Model A frame I'm going to use. I will be replacing the front cross member with an aftermarket one currently hanging in my shed. That will narrow up the front and lower it a couple of inches, I will also pull out the centrecross member trim a bit off it and tack it back in then I will put a small step in the back and remove and refit the rear cross member so I will now have a narrower frame.
Then on with the rest and like I said I'm looking for you all to chime in at anytime with advice,suggestions and criticisms.
Cheers
Tony
Well that is putting you between a rock and a hard place for sure... You gotta do what you gotta do... build as safe as you can...
Have you heard of a bloke by the name of Ron Berry over there some where. He apparently has used Mazda ute chassis under '27 T bodies? I have a Mazada chassis drawing that I'm studing right now. That may be an avenue I can follow. I can't find any thing on google other than a wild looking Woodie.
What can you tell me?
Cheers
Tony
GAB
Member
Here are a couple of pics of a Bucket that a friend and I built way back in the late 50's that used a Model A frame. We thought that it turned out pretty well for a couple of clowns that didn't have a clue what they were doing. And interestingly enough, it survives to this day.
Here is a drawing of how the frame was done.
For whatever it's worth.
Here is a drawing of how the frame was done.
For whatever it's worth.
Here are a couple of pics of a Bucket that a friend and I built way back in the late 50's that used a Model A frame. We thought that it turned out pretty well for a couple of clowns that didn't have a clue what they were doing. And interestingly enough, it survives to this day.
Here is a drawing of how the frame was done.
For whatever it's worth.
Thanks GAB I remember reading about this car some where - with the fuel tank up behind the seat.
Cheers
Tony
Hi Tony
You dont happen to live in South Australia do you? It sucks living in S.A. because of the tightest registration requirements in Australia. I'm building a RHS chassis at home. I'm just tacking it up and then getting a ASRF approved welder to weld it fully. I have got a lexus quad cam v8, a Turbo 700 and a jag rear end to go in it. I'm not looking for full street reg just the ASRF rego for club events.
Neddy
You dont happen to live in South Australia do you? It sucks living in S.A. because of the tightest registration requirements in Australia. I'm building a RHS chassis at home. I'm just tacking it up and then getting a ASRF approved welder to weld it fully. I have got a lexus quad cam v8, a Turbo 700 and a jag rear end to go in it. I'm not looking for full street reg just the ASRF rego for club events.
Neddy
Where are you Neddy?
Neddy I think you need to talk to some one from the TAC because we don't have club permits here.
Cheers
Tony
Hi Tony
Yea your right I just checked. I guess I can sell the parts on ebay. Such is life. I couldn't be f****d going through full reg as I've been to Regency Park before and I would rather have
a colonoscopy.
Neddy
Screaming Metal
Active Member
I've been outta pocket for awhile, I read about your plight on your frame. You could probably have someone over here do your frame for you, and they should enclose some documents saying that your frame way 'designed', yadyadyada yada....that way, you couldget around your nannyship there.
I'm with Ted, I've welded on one or two of those jewels back in my day, still makes me cringe. Yes, I boxed it in with A36 3/16 steel plate, and welded it....had to stress relieve it really good....it tried to distort all over the place.
If getting a frame from over here isn't a option, look for something close and modify it...find a well tattered 32 and whoop out the plasma and get er done!
T-Odd
Member
"Have you heard of a bloke by the name of Ron Berry over there some where. He apparently has used Mazda ute chassis under '27 T bodies? I have a Mazada chassis drawing that I'm studing right now. That may be an avenue I can follow. I can't find any thing on google other than a wild looking Woodie.
What can you tell me?
Cheers
Tony"
I have seen a few builds on Dodge D50 (Mitsubishi minitruck) frames. Paul Abernathy can be found on a few of the rat rod forums, usually just called "PA" or something like that.
Here are two versions.
He's built three of four hotrods using that frame.
What can you tell me?
Cheers
Tony"
I have seen a few builds on Dodge D50 (Mitsubishi minitruck) frames. Paul Abernathy can be found on a few of the rat rod forums, usually just called "PA" or something like that.
Here are two versions.
He's built three of four hotrods using that frame.
Thanks for the replies everybody. We've been away on a 3 week vacation to South East Asia - fantastic time the best holiday ever! Probably the best thing I could have done because now I've come home with a clear head and some fantastic ideas. As far as boxing the original frame goes it's a proven and safe method of construction with thousands of cars being build that way since for ever. We have tough laws that have served us well because all of our cars are well engineered and safe and because of that we don't have the rust rod thing going on down here - man have I seen some bad and unsafe practices in magazines and on web sites in the last few years. Some here and over there have taken some of the better styling ideas and incorporated them into their well engineered builds. Since I came back I've decided to take a little bit of 1930's sports car engineering and go with 1/4 elliptic suspension front and rear. This will allow me to get my chassis ride height low with out stepping the frame. Them because an Model A frame is a tiny bit wide for a '23 T body I can sit the frame on top of the chassis and fit an aluminum belly pan for the old track car look. A second advantage here is a little additional body space as the floor will be at the bottom of the body so I will sit deep in the car. Given the belly pan I'll have to go with a turtle deck, and how about a tonneau cover over the cockpit a pair of wind deflectors for the passenger and driver along with a cut down '32 grill shell and mesh insert and an unpainted hood with retaining straps.
I've allowed a year to get the chassis rolling and drivable and still have about 10 and a half months left. I've started my "Application to Build" paper work to submit to the registration people and it may take a couple of months to get back my preliminary OK to build and then I'll make a start on the chassis. In the mean time my flattie is coming along, the gear box adaption is slow and I'm working out a clutch.
Cheers
Tony
I've allowed a year to get the chassis rolling and drivable and still have about 10 and a half months left. I've started my "Application to Build" paper work to submit to the registration people and it may take a couple of months to get back my preliminary OK to build and then I'll make a start on the chassis. In the mean time my flattie is coming along, the gear box adaption is slow and I'm working out a clutch.
Cheers
Tony
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