Weight, Front and rear

[Corley]

Hi all,

Probably this has been hashed out before, but I don't see it in my review of the forums, so I'll ask again, and if someone can either answer or point me to the answer I'll be grateful. I wonderred if any of you have done some actual weights, front and rear individually by themselves, to determine weights and distribution. I'd be very interested in those numbers and what the bucket is like that they go with. I'm considerring some torsion bar suspension, and would like to know if it will handle the weights. It's a little funky, so I won't describe it yet, but suffice to say it's different than any you have seen to date, and using parts you'd never expect to find on a 'T' bucket. Typical weights for front and rear would help a lot... Mostly interested in a fairly light bucket, but I can factor big engines, super heavy frames, air conditioning (that's for Ted since I assume he has it for that Bakersfield heat), and stuff like that into it (or out of it.) Speculation is fine, but it's really actual measured weights that I'm after...

Thanks a bunch in advance for any consideration/information that you can give,

Corley

 

[Ted Brown]

Corley, The only AC I use is what blows in as I drive, besides, AC takes up HP and does not help mileage, with gas prices what they are today, I want no extras on my engine that cost HP... as far as weight ft. to rear... Start at 70% on the rear wheels for traction,,, measure back 70% of your wheel base and see if your car will balance there, and that is with driver's weight in the seat also... That is a great place to start when wanting to get out of the hole with no spinning of the tires...

 

[Corley]

Ted,

OK, I see pictures of you in the gallery standing beside your mom next to your dad's rod, and then one with your big sister with blond hair next to it, and even one with some shinny metal back behind the engine, but nothing that really shows the firewall in any detail. Got anything up close to the firewall?

I was hoping to get some weights in LBS, so I can figure out these torsion bars. I'm still sort of amazed that you are able to get 70% of the weight that far back, but of course actual measured weights would confirm that. Do you have any measured axle (front / rear) weights for that roller skate?

Anybody else have any actual weights?

Corley :tnku:

 

[Hotrod46]

2150 lbs total with me in it. I weigh about 250. 6 gallons of gas and small Optima battery in rear deck area behind rear axle. Small block Chevy with aluminum manifold and 700R4 trans.

105" wheelbase.

1250 lbs on rear wheels.

900 lbs on front.

Weighed at the local scrap yard.

Here's a side shot for proportions.

Mike

 

[EX JUNK]

My car alone has a total weight of 1937 pounds with 10 gallons of gas on board. The front weighs 935 pounds while the rear weighs 1002 pounds and it has a 108" wheelbase. These figures were gained by weighing it on a set of NASCAR type scales. With them, you can not only get total weight and front to rear distribution but you can also get the weight of each corner which is used to set the car up properly for racing.

Here is a profile shot to show you the proportions.

Jim

 

[Corley]

Mike and Jim,

Excellent information, and clearly shows a difference in the weight distribution of the different body styles. Earlier bodies typically have the weight situated further back, and will easily make Ted's 70% ideal, whereas later bodies will have more trouble making that. Mike and Jim, thanks for all the details, this really helps me explain why I don't think I can meet Ted's ideal distribution, I'm building a '27 roadster. With your numbers and pictures it all makes sense now... By the way, the funky suspension I'm considerring utilizes VW bug torsion bars.

Thanks again,

Corley

PS Both pix are great, but I sure envy that background in Jim's picture. Here in the NW, it's been cold and solid rain almost since Oct.!!!

PS/2 These side by side pix really show the extra leg room of the later body style. Even though I'm short and shrinking all the time, I wanted that extra leg room...

 

[Ted Brown]

Just a quick note about that 70% to start with, that is for a drag type of chassis, now most of the T Buckets will be driven on the street over curvy roads and many different conditions... A closer to 50-50 is better for normal street use, just not great for traction, so, stay off that loud pedal to stay in a straight line...

 

[Hotrod46]

What Ted said! I know Jim has his car set up for curvy roads, but mine has a push in the front when driven hard on curves.

The Auburn limited slip in the rear doesn't help either. It turns in just fine, but as you feed in the power exiting the turn, it understeers. The first time it happened was kind of an "Oh ****!" moment on Tennessee's Dragon, but I got used to it quickly. It's predictable and proportional to power input.

Straight line traction is a LOT better than I expected. Those who think that a T will just sit and spin the tires are wrong! Mine will spin 'em, but the whole time it's also makin' like a jackrabbit! Acceleration can only be compared to a motorcycle. Just make sure you have it pointed where you want to go when you nail it, because you're going to get there fast!

Mike

 

[putz]

A big factor in this are you going with wide in rear and skinny up front? This factor will definately effect your handling wide tires have a tendency to want to push in corners even without posi. So of course more weight on rear will push even more. Just something to think about especially if going posi.

 

[Old Rotor Flap]

Wow lads, I'm impressed.

Jim, that's pretty deadly on weight distribution. Your car must handle quite well.

I'm pleased to see weights coming in lower than I hope to achieve.

I'm not shooting for a Grammy Award on the car project like I did with my drag bike where I was real good at taking off a gram here and a gram there. I just couldn't give up pizza, beer and wine.

If I'm under 2500/2600 lbs., I'll be a happy guy.

 

[Corley]

The problem with a lot of designs that brag about their 50 / 50 weight distribution, or close to it, is that the weght is placed at the two ends. I'm thinking of things like the Pontiac Tempest, C5 and up 'Vette, etc., where the engine is in the front and the transaxle is in the rear. Anyway, what you have is an anchor and a pendilum effect. What you really want is something more like the 'T' bucket, where the weight is concentraighted toward the center of the car. That way you can drift through corners without so much danger of spinning out or the front end plowing through. Just an observation that people don't think that much about...

Anybody with more weigh ins, please go ahead and post them.

Thanks,

Corley

PS Is there such a thing as a tire pressure / weight chart for car tires? I know these charts are used extensively for trucks and motorhomes to balance the tire pressure to the load, but I can't locate one for cars... It made a really big difference in the ride quality and handling on my MotorHome when I weighed each corner and set the pressures per that chart... Seems since 'T' buckets don't have the sticker on the door (let alone the door), we are forced to experiment with pressures. A chart for passenger tires would be nice...

 

[Ted Brown]

Pretty hard to have any type of chart, when every car is different, factory cars are all the same, so it works there... I find it is best to set the tire pressure to each car and each different type of tire is also different... Read the rubber pattern you can leave on the road, Darker at the edges, needs a bit more pressure, darker in the center, a little less, pretty simple really... at both stopping and take off...

 

["The Bat" out of hell]

Over thinking,most,but front to back is what it is if it's aready built,how ever many many have screw up sub set up and don't know it really tell it too late in a fast turn or super stop or even wet or stony road,shows up as not steering were your trying to go.
ONe of the biggist screw ups is backword ackermen from moving rear steer spindle arms to the front,it one of those things that dose feel just fine running in a strait line,tel in a corner the front tire start going in def lines from each other,cutting you back to about 1/2 of only one tire steering if that.
There another thing I fine alot is corner load/cross load not matched across car,so only two tires/one of the fronts and other side back carrie nearly all the car=poor high speedbraking.
This can be checked fairly EZ with driver setting in car when you do this=jack up rearend housing deadcenter on a small pointed thing on top of jack pad, between tires and see witch rear tire comes off the road first and how far you must jack it up before both actully clear road///they should both clear about the same time if you car is inbalance corner to corner,making braking as even as it can be/barring other thinks not working right. For rear coilovers it's fairly EZ to get right,but rear transvers spings are a bit tricky. Sometimes it can be the front spring as well that needs some tweeking.

 

[Rick]

Over thinking,most,but front to back is what it is if it's aready built,how ever many many have screw up sub set up and don't know it really tell it too late in a fast turn or super stop or even wet or stony road,shows up as not steering were your trying to go.
ONe of the biggist screw ups is backword ackermen from moving rear steer spindle arms to the front,it one of those things that dose feel just fine running in a strait line,tel in a corner the front tire start going in def lines from each other,cutting you back to about 1/2 of only one tire steering if that.
There another thing I fine alot is corner load/cross load not matched across car,so only two tires/one of the fronts and other side back carrie nearly all the car=poor high speedbraking.
This can be checked fairly EZ with driver setting in car when you do this=jack up rearend housing deadcenter on a small pointed thing on top of jack pad, between tires and see witch rear tire comes off the road first and how far you must jack it up before both actully clear road///they should both clear about the same time if you car is inbalance corner to corner,making braking as even as it can be/barring other thinks not working right. For rear coilovers it's fairly EZ to get right,but rear transvers spings are a bit tricky. Sometimes it can be the front spring as well that needs some tweeking.

HUH?

 

[Ted Brown]

Rick, I hear you, because that is something chassis builders of drag cars use to set more weight on (and check) and open rear end to get more bite on the rider's side rear tire, and yes the front comes into play very much so, and it works backwards to how you might think...