welding question

[fluidfloyd]

Fleetwelf 37: This is a Lincoln trade name for 6013.

AWS E6013
This electrode provides a smaller flatter bead and slightly lower deposition rate than Fleetweld 7. This electrode is excellent for use with low voltage 225 amp AC welding machines.

George

 

[blownt]

do you REALLY think there is going to be a "strength" issue on a T bucket frame, one being welded with a 6011 or 6013 rod at 60,000 psi tensile stength or a 7018 rod at 70,000 psi tensile stength? I am assuming one knows how to weld, bevel, gap and what a full penetration weld is.

What are the major types of welding electrodes (welding rods)?

E-6011 Welding Rods Produces a deep penetrating weld and works well on non-prepared, dirty, rusted, scaled, oily or painted surfaces. A mild steel type that can be used with AC or DC currents in all positions. 60,000 P.S.I. tensile strength

E-6013 Welding Rods Produces a medium penetrating weld with a superior weld bead appearance. A mild steel type that can be used with AC or DC currents in all positions. Best used with clean or prepared surfaces. Designed for general-purpose use, excellent for low heat application. 60,000 P.S.I. tensile strength

E-7018 Welding Rods This electrode is known as a low hydrogen type and can be used AC or DC currents in all positions. The coating on this electrode has a low moisture content that reduces the introduction of hydrogen into the weld. (Note: This electrode must be kept dry. If it gets wet, it must be dried in a rod oven before use) Can produce welds of X-Ray quality with medium penetration. Best used with clean or prepared surfaces. 70,000 P.S.I. tensile strength

 

[RPM]

I agree:lol:

 

[fluidfloyd]

do you REALLY think there is going to be a "strength" issue on a T bucket frame, one being welded with a 6011 or 6013 rod at 60,000 psi tensile stength or a 7018 rod at 70,000 psi tensile stength? I am assuming one knows how to weld, bevel, gap and what a full penetration weld is.

What are the major types of welding electrodes (welding rods)?

E-6011 Welding Rods Produces a deep penetrating weld and works well on non-prepared, dirty, rusted, scaled, oily or painted surfaces. A mild steel type that can be used with AC or DC currents in all positions. 60,000 P.S.I. tensile strength

E-6013 Welding Rods Produces a medium penetrating weld with a superior weld bead appearance. A mild steel type that can be used with AC or DC currents in all positions. Best used with clean or prepared surfaces. Designed for general-purpose use, excellent for low heat application. 60,000 P.S.I. tensile strength

blownt,

You do bring up a good point. In most cases, any of the above welding rods will equal or exceed the yield strengths of the frame material. most people just order rectangular steel tube without calling out a spec. For the most part I always order A500B grade. This is a cold formed tube and meets the following mechanical properties:

A500B 58,000psi Minimum Tensile
46,000psi Minimum Yield
23% Elongation

As you can see this material is right in the range of either 6011 or 6013.

A500C 62,000psi Minimum Tensile
50,000psi Minimum Yield
21% Elongation

This material would be good with the 7018 welding rod.

There is also another grade of structual tube known as A501 and is the same as A-36 Hot Rolled plate. It has a yield strength of 36,000psi and is the cheapest of the three listed above. A lot of steel companies just send the "B" Grade A500 and that is good. As to prices. I just received material today for fixture use so I will share the cost for anyones reference. This material was trucked out of Jonesboro, Arkansas to Mountain View, Arkansas.

3ea. 20' x .188 x 4"x4" A500B 127.20ea ($6.36 per ft.) $381.60
1ea. 24' x .188 x 2"x3" A500B 75.20ea.($3.33 per ft.)

Hope this is of some help to anyone still concerened with welding carbon steel frames.

George

 

[Screaming Metal]

do you REALLY think there is going to be a "strength" issue on a T bucket frame, one being welded with a 6011 or 6013 rod at 60,000 psi tensile stength or a 7018 rod at 70,000 psi tensile stength? I am assuming one knows how to weld, bevel, gap and what a full penetration weld is.

What are the major types of welding electrodes (welding rods)?

E-6011 Welding Rods Produces a deep penetrating weld and works well on non-prepared, dirty, rusted, scaled, oily or painted surfaces. A mild steel type that can be used with AC or DC currents in all positions. 60,000 P.S.I. tensile strength

E-6013 Welding Rods Produces a medium penetrating weld with a superior weld bead appearance. A mild steel type that can be used with AC or DC currents in all positions. Best used with clean or prepared surfaces. Designed for general-purpose use, excellent for low heat application. 60,000 P.S.I. tensile strength

blownt,

You do bring up a good point. In most cases, any of the above welding rods will equal or exceed the yield strengths of the frame material. most people just order rectangular steel tube without calling out a spec. For the most part I always order A500B grade. This is a cold formed tube and meets the following mechanical properties:

A500B 58,000psi Minimum Tensile
46,000psi Minimum Yield
23% Elongation

As you can see this material is right in the range of either 6011 or 6013.

A500C 62,000psi Minimum Tensile
50,000psi Minimum Yield
21% Elongation

This material would be good with the 7018 welding rod.

There is also another grade of structual tube known as A501 and is the same as A-36 Hot Rolled plate. It has a yield strength of 36,000psi and is the cheapest of the three listed above. A lot of steel companies just send the "B" Grade A500 and that is good. As to prices. I just received material today for fixture use so I will share the cost for anyones reference. This material was trucked out of Jonesboro, Arkansas to Mountain View, Arkansas.

3ea. 20' x .188 x 4"x4" A500B 127.20ea ($6.36 per ft.) $381.60
1ea. 24' x .188 x 2"x3" A500B 75.20ea.($3.33 per ft.)

Hope this is of some help to anyone still concerened with welding carbon steel frames.

George

Hey dude....listen to FluidFloyd, when it comes to you welding a frame ort anything critical, this is no place to NOT be completely safe by You trying yourself to weld something thats critical.........
Fluid and the other guys are saying there's a right tool for the right job......6010's, 6011's, 6013's, 6014's, 7018's, 7024's yada, yada, yada....
I've welded for WAY too many years, have a shop or a friend off the board do it if you don't trust yourself to do a certified weld.


Now.....let me see if I can remember........It was back in 83' I believe it was, we were at the track and this guys frame broke at about the 60 ft. mark, and.............

:lol:

 

[Screaming Metal]

Oh,:lol:, let me also add this, there's welded tubing, and there's DOM tubing....before any of you guys go out and find out from a steel dealer that they sell this reject stuff super cheap,:surprised:, don't use this stuff on your frame, unless you know your stuff......DON'T DO IT!!!!!!!
I've dealt with this stuff before as I'm sure FluidFloyd and a few others here have too. Don't mess with this stuff unless your experienced.

 

[Francis Blake]

I have a flux core welder can do some pretty work with it but have been told those welds are brittle allso have a lincoln 225amp ac-dc welder if the wire is to brittle I wont use it. Any advice is welcome...Francis

 

[fluidfloyd]

I have a flux core welder can do some pretty work with it but have been told those welds are brittle allso have a lincoln 225amp ac-dc welder if the wire is to brittle I wont use it. Any advice is welcome...Francis

I'm probably not the one to answer this question as I really don't use a mig machine. But since no one has responded I'll give you my view from the mountain. I would go to Lincolns or Millers web site and look at wire specs for advise. Some wire may well be incorrect for your application. I would just look for a general purpose wire that matches the material specs. Any good welding supply store should be able to make a recommendation. As for the Lincoln 225, great machine and it will do exactly what you need. I started out years ago on a simple little Lincoln AC machine. I think they were about $99.00 in those days. Hope this will give you some limited help.

George

 

[Youngster]

if you are proficient with a stick wielder, have at it. my best advice is to look at a 160 amp or larger, 220 volt wire with gas. $400 to $600 will get you in one and you'll never regret it.

Ron

 

[meangreen]

I concur with George (fluidfloyd). Unless you are using some strage grade of wire, everything should be fine. Metalurgically, general purpose flux core wire is basically the same thing as flux coated welding rods. I have welded with both (I have both kinds of welders) and can tell very little difference. The coupe in my avatar picture, my son's sedan, and the roadster I'm building now were all done 100% with my flux core welder...

 

[bobscogin]

[quote name='Screamin' Metal']Oh,, let me also add this, there's welded tubing, and there's DOM tubing....[/quote]

Probably worth pointing out that DOM tubing is also welded, but it's drawn over a mandrel to flatten the weld seam. It's used where welded tubing is permissible, but needs to have a smooth ID with closer tolerances. Seamless tubing is, as the name says, seamless with no weld.

Bob

 

[Screaming Metal]

How correct you are....just letting some of these guys know that there is many different types of tubing and not to go with something possibly reject. Very, very seldom is DOM or seamless ever rejected, where that big ugly seam inside sometimes tries to split..........we gotta keep our guys safe !!!!!!:welxome:

 

[blownt]

I don't think we need to go overboard here. We are not building a TF or FC chassis here for a street driven T bucket. How many rect tube frames and tubular front crossmembers have you seen split, or weld breaks on a street daily driver? There is a WORLD of difference between a TP or Spirit or CCR frame and say John Forces FC frame. And where TP or Spirit or CCR or Murph McKinney get their material and how its welded. Lets be safe but we are not building a full race drag car here. I think common sense and practices should prevail here. I built my frame out of plain ol 2x3x1/4" rect steel tubing. I added a few gussets here and there where I felt they should be. And I will put my frame up against anything out there on the street and I would feel just as safe on the strip, but it is NOT a strip car and do not ever plan to take it more than a 1/8th mile.

 

[bobscogin]

I don't think we need to go overboard here.

Agreed. Welded tubing is fine for hot rod / street rod frames and chassis components. Seamless tubing is usually spec'd for pressure applications, but of course, can be used for structural purposes in critical applications.

Bob

 

[Brucer]

i use to use a stick welder a long time ago... honestly if i were going to start on building a T-bucket i would just bite the bullet and buy a mig welder..

i think in the long run you would be better off getting a mig.. it will save you alot of time to offset the cost.. migs are reasonably priced now..

 

[blownt]

I have both a mig and a stick. I use the mig for thin stuff and the stick for just about anything over 3/16" thick.

 

[cj24p]

I retired from the excavating business and we used 6013 on almost everthing. The booms on backhoes have a lot of flex and w never had a problem. The 7018 should be used with a reverse polarity machine using positive ground. It is a harder weld with more tensile strength, great rod to weld vertical with but not as nice appearing in an unfinished state as 6013. I sometimes mix the two. Making a root pass with 7018 and a finish pass with 6013.

cj24p

 

[rooster57]

I migwelded my frame and when i was done i washed back over it with my tig "no filler rod" and the welds look like they were caulked. I did this because i wanted my frame powder coated and filler wont work on powder coating. We did a test with lab metal and it out gassed through the PC.

 

[LumenAl]

...We did a test with lab metal and it out gassed through the PC...

You can out gassed through political correctness?

OK, but seriously, I'm not a welder... what does that mean?

 

[rooster57]

When the oven heated the metal up and they applied the powder coat the labmetal was reacting to the heatand was letting out some gasses. The powder coat had pinholes in it everywhere the lab metal was applied. Labmetal is suppose to be a filler for metal to fill small imperfections before the powder coat process. If its applied to thick and the oven temp is to high this happens its called out gassing.