Wood Floor Test Panels

[Zandoz]

Zandoz , my take is this , coosa & others like it would perform great , however , these products are very expensive. a/c ply , especially if it's glassed on all sides will more than likely outlast the rest of the car [the plywood transom & floor in my boat lasted nearly 40 years , stored outdoors] marine ply is glued together w/the same glue as any other exterior plywood , the difference in it is the plys are thinner & the sheet is void-less [stronger but slightly heavier]. there are alternatives such as honeycomb sheet [I think CCR is using it] but again, it may be cost prohibitive. Face it , these cars are babied , seldom if ever left out in the weather , and there are 30 -40 year old examples still cruising around .
dave

You're correct except on the weight aspect and then you are correct with some variables. I know from boat building that baltic birch is extremely heavy, although it's not the best boat building material either despite wide spread use. Meranti (mahogany) ply is about on par with construction materials in terms of weight, just a lot stronger in which case you could, if you wanted, use a thinner ply and get the same strength with less weight. Another very good option from the boat building realm is Okume plywood and it is very light weight yet reasonably strong. It's not as strong as meranti, but it is much lighter and still better than construction materials. If you want to shave some weight off your ride you could do a laminate with biaxial glass, epoxy and okume and have super strong and almost (but not quite) as light as foam core.

The only reason I see to use construction materials is the convenience factor of having a local store to buy it from. It's really hard to argue cost when you look at the overall cost of the car. Since I also build boats I'll use Okume and epoxy with biaxial glass just because I'll have it on hand. I'll rest easy knowing it will outlive me and the extra $50 or so won't matter by time the rubber is burning on the road

That's my opinion, we all have them

I have a few reasons for focusing on the composite material rather than the plywood options. The first is that a big part of my income for several years came from replacing plywood floors in travel trailers and plywood decks on pontoon boats. There may well be plywood products that will hold up, but I never found one that I was really happy with. But that was 30 years ago <shrug>

Next, unfortunately this car will be out in the weather...under a car cover. We have no garage, and nowhere to put one. My workshop is a small shed, and this thing will be built and live in the driveway.

Then there is weight. This car will have a small V6 for power, and every bit of weight I can shave will be a plus.

With the Coosa I can get a 3/4" 32x48 sheet for around $110 plus UPS shipping...to me well worth it to save 30% in weight and to eliminate any moisture worries. What I do not know is if the stuff is actually as structurally sound as a comparable thickness of plywood, as they claim. The good thing is I have a lot of time before it will be purchase time, and maybe by then there will be an even better option.

 

[Wyo George]

no plywood will hold up on it's own. In boat building I fully encapsulate everything with epoxy and glass (even when I use foam panels...)

Coosa is good stuff, I have used a little of it on small projects, I just don't see a benefit on the type stuff I do. It's nice to have options though!

 

[jcunning]

Bob did say he was going to stress it until it breaks. I wonder if he will be wearing a mask when he does it.

 

[fletcherson]

no plywood will hold up on it's own. In boat building I fully encapsulate everything with epoxy and glass (even when I use foam panels...)

Coosa is good stuff, I have used a little of it on small projects, I just don't see a benefit on the type stuff I do. It's nice to have options though!

Plywood rots even when encapsulated eventually. I have seen many rotted transoms and floors in glass boats.

 

[Wyo George]

If done incorrectly for sure, but done correctly it will outlast either of us. When I build a boat every single hole gets overdrilled, filled with thickened epoxy and redrilled out. I have replaced many transoms and soles that were done incorrectly (cheaply) at the factory. They use polyester resin to save money and time and then drill into it without any thought or care of longevity. I'm fairly active amoungst high dollar custom boat builders and have built quite a few boats myself. You'd be surprised at the number of custom boats that are plywood cored, some costing close to or above a million dollars. Boats like a Spencer 60 pictured below:

Source: http://features.boats.com/boat-content/2012/02/spencer-60-heavy-artillery/

Sorry if I've derailed the thread, my desire is not to argue building materials, but rather to stress that whatever the job, the result is only as good as the workmanship.

 

[fletcherson]

If done incorrectly for sure, but done correctly it will outlast either of us. When I build a boat every single hole gets overdrilled, filled with thickened epoxy and redrilled out. I have replaced many transoms and soles that were done incorrectly (cheaply) at the factory. They use polyester resin to save money and time and then drill into it without any thought or care of longevity. I'm fairly active amoungst high dollar custom boat builders and have built quite a few boats myself. You'd be surprised at the number of custom boats that are plywood cored, some costing close to or above a million dollars. Boats like a Spencer 60 pictured below:

Source: http://features.boats.com/boat-content/2012/02/spencer-60-heavy-artillery/

Sorry if I've derailed the thread, my desire is not to argue building materials, but rather to stress that whatever the job, the result is only as good as the workmanship.

Not to be argumentative, but every glass boat that I have owned, and I have owned several, eventually developed stress cracks in the jel coat and glass above and below the water line and moisture finds it's way in, not just through drilled holes, but that's a good point. Mind you those weren't six-figured or custom built boats, but they were very nice mainstream brand name boats from various manufactures. I've seen the same thing with showers and tubs. I suppose that you could make one good enough to resist the stress, but that's not the norm. They do last a fair amount of time though. Hopefully no-one will need to float test or bathe in their t-bucket to prove a point one way or the other. I think that good grade plywood embedded in glass is very well suited for flooring in a bucket and will resist moisture and be plenty strong. OSB embedded in glass is likely fine as well considering the fact that a lot of buckets only have plywood floors with no glass and last a long time. They typically don't see much rain, etc.

 

[Wyo George]

Not to be argumentative, but every glass boat that I have owned, and I have owned several, eventually developed stress cracks in the jel coat and glass above and below the water line and moisture finds it's way in, not just through drilled holes, but that's a good point. Mind you those weren't six-figured or custom built boats, but they were very nice mainstream brand name boats from various manufactures. I've seen the same thing with showers and tubs. I suppose that you could make one good enough to resist the stress, but that's not the norm. They do last a fair amount of time though. Hopefully no-one will need to float test or bathe in their t-bucket to prove a point one way or the other. I think that good grade plywood embedded in glass is very well suited for flooring in a bucket and will resist moisture and be plenty strong. OSB embedded in glass is likely fine as well considering the fact that a lot of buckets only have plywood floors with no glass and last a long time. They typically don't see much rain, etc.

No doubt your glass boats have developed cracks, so have all of my production models over the years. It's apparent that I should have made a distinction earlier and for that I apologize. Factory boats, shower units and other products are made from gel-coated polyester with limited support, even using cardboard stiffeners in some instances. The stuff I am referring to is only marginally related; about the same as building a doghouse could be considered "fine woodworking" a vessel constructed using either epoxy-glass composite or cold molded is much stiffer then a FRP style production hull.

At any rate, I apologize for the derailment of the thread. I'd gladly discuss the various fiberglass related construction methods in more detail, but further derailing this post would be impolite I fear.

George (the new one)

 

[fletcherson]

No doubt your glass boats have developed cracks, so have all of my production models over the years. It's apparent that I should have made a distinction earlier and for that I apologize. Factory boats, shower units and other products are made from gel-coated polyester with limited support, even using cardboard stiffeners in some instances. The stuff I am referring to is only marginally related; about the same as building a doghouse could be considered "fine woodworking" a vessel constructed using either epoxy-glass composite or cold molded is much stiffer then a FRP style production hull.

At any rate, I apologize for the derailment of the thread. I'd gladly discuss the various fiberglass related construction methods in more detail, but further derailing this post would be impolite I fear.

George (the new one)

It's easy to get of topic, one thing leads to the next.

 

[T-Test]

Dang Bruce you sure ain't no artist!

Tenn. Mason Jar about empty when drawing that 'picture'.

 

[B.C.]

I got my test panels done and will submerge them in water once a day and post daily pictures for a week. I'm not sure that will show us a lot but will leave the panels out side and abuse them there over an extended period and we will see what happens.

 

[fish finder]

I am new at this but I have glassed standard CDX plywood for tower floors in boats that have lasted many years when left unprotected outside. I never glass the bottom of the plywood, only Gel coated the bottoms. I am rebuilding an old T Bucket and nothing is as it seams. Really enjoying the comments on this site.

 

[fletcherson]

I am new at this but I have glassed standard CDX plywood for tower floors in boats that have lasted many years when left unprotected outside. I never glass the bottom of the plywood, only Gel coated the bottoms. I am rebuilding an old T Bucket and nothing is as it seams. Really enjoying the comments on this site.

Hello, With old cars, you never know what you will run into until you start taking them apart. Mine has left me scratching my head, wondering what the precious owner/builder was thinking. I think one variable that makes a big difference with wood/glass is if air can get to it so it doesn't just stay wet. It seems that the spots that rot the worst are in areas that have limited ventilation from my observation. CDX is rated for exposure, so that would add to it's longevity.

 

[T-Test]

I got my test panels done and will submerge them in water once a day and post daily pictures for a week. I'm not sure that will show us a lot but will leave the panels out side and abuse them there over an extended period and we will see what happens.View attachment 10746 View attachment 10747

B.C. if any uncoated edges of your test boards get wet , test is for naught. The water will sponge into /through the rest and swell under the resin coating failing to give best results. In my findings, completely covering the boards with F/G and resin they will outlast you. Make sure all holes you cut and drill are covered on the edges so no water or any moisture can get into the wood. The edges are where this usually happens, or holes cut/ drilled into it. Thicker the boards/ stronger they are. But F/G and resin strengthen thinner wood. Weight to strength is what we are looking for in this situation. The honey comb is a good choice IF it bonds with the body using F/G and resin . Different thicknesses of honey comb for different floor systems. NOT trying to tell you how to do it, just my experience with these types of wood and plastic/acrylic honey combs. Bruce

 

[James C]

Anything ever become of this?

 

[T-Test]

Anything ever become of this?

B.C. is a busy man. Making money is/should be more important than trying to right something that is/was not his fault. He'll post again when he has the results, I'm sure.

 

[hulkamania]

yes BC has been busy. He has been building molds for a trailer hearse for another company, plus we built it complete for them, improving our molds, and building fiberglass parts. We have some much opportunities right now and it is keeping us on our toes. We are building 3 turnkeys for customers, trying to get some loose ends wrapped up, making molds better, and etc.

 

[James C]

No worries. Glad to hear ya'll are staying busy with this cruddy weather. Just curious about the results. I have my own ideas about how durable each would be and was wondering if my ideas were correct.