4 link, Something is wrong with this picture?

[Jeff]

I started to lay out the 4 after contacting speedway to tell them that the angle was too much on the bar ends, but they said it was 7 degrees. I thought they should be straight any way was why i contacted them. So I decided to put one together and see what I had. this photo says it all. Any ideas? are these front bars maybe as I suspected they might be.

 

[iroct]

This appears to be a triangulated 4 bar to me. for the rear

 

[old round fart]

Are you sure those don't go toward the center? I have seen a traction bar from Speedway that does.

 

[Jeff]

They were not ordered as triangular but might be. I already had the front bracket on the frame so did not order it in the kit. If I recall they too about $100 buck off without the front brackets. I just got the rear brackets bars and hardware in the kit. I turned them over toward the center and they were just as bad the other way and tucked under the frame, even on the inside they would be angled too much to match the rear end. I am going to send them the photo as soon as I get my email fixed today or Monday to see what they have to say. My server updated the system their system to pop3 and nothing works at the moment.

 

[fluidfloyd]

Jeff...That rear bracket looks like it will saddle up to your axle housing tube and align the lower 4 link bar perpendicular (90 degrees) to the axle center line. The picture is to dark to make out the front frame bracket. Try and get some light or a flash with more detailed pictures. Keep us posted.

George

 

[Zandoz]

Are your frame rails parallel, or angled in towards the front? At one time a year or more ago I was told by Speedway tech support that the 7/11 degree angles were intended for better alignment with a Model A frame, which has a pronounced angle in towards the front.

 

[SRM1952]

I started to lay out the 4 after contacting speedway to tell them that the angle was too much on the bar ends, but they said it was 7 degrees. I thought they should be straight any way was why i contacted them. So I decided to put one together and see what I had. this photo says it all. Any ideas? are these front bars maybe as I suspected they might be.

View attachment 10877

I have the 4 link like yours -it is not a triangular setup--it uses a panard in rear---I have the rear with 7 degree end on both ends--so mount on frame and chassis are straight--- this gives Z affect----I made a quick drawing and of mine --- sorry not to scale. I also have 7 degree on front on chassis end, but my front end is totally different than most. Speedway sells 2 different rear setups--1 for narrow chassis (with 7degree ends ) other for wide chassis (with straight ends) When I mounted the mounts on the rear , did it so as to make mounting bolt perpendicular to the chassis . I did not use there axle mount ,as I wanted to move spring outboard more.

 

[SRM1952]

Jeff...That rear bracket looks like it will saddle up to your axle housing tube and align the lower 4 link bar perpendicular (90 degrees) to the axle center line. The picture is to dark to make out the front frame bracket. Try and get some light or a flash with more detailed pictures. Keep us posted.

George

A quick Flash job

 

[fluidfloyd]

A quick Flash job

I have to agree with SMR1952 as that being a parallel 4 bar system. Notice that both weld on bushing eyes are parallel with each other and 90 degrees to the tube center line. It looks like the forward mounting bracket hole is set at an angle to run radius rods or a wishbone setup that triangulates itself. If you decide to go that route you will still need to run a centering devise like a panard bar or watts linkage. Hope this helps you. Good Luck.

George

 

[RESINATOR]

A triangulated 4-Link housing bracket would have only one bar attached at the lower part of the bracket. The angled end would go on the housing side on a Model A. The Model A frame has a 5 degree angle to the rear end housing so that is what the angle normally would match. I think if you have the space you should use the angled ends as that allows the coil-overs to be at a better angle to take some load off the panard bar. We use this same set-up on our 26-27 chassis, using a 5 degree adjuster and bar end.

 

[Jeff]

Many Many thanks to all. All the photos were a big help. I think I am going to try and go with SRM' s solution as the front brackets are tacked on the frame already. I think they are close to where they need to be. I will have to check after getting some new ends and sitting the rear end in the brackets. I am hoping to return the three straight ends plus the difference to speedway to get 7 degree ends but if I can't I will just have to buy them. It's not going to work like it is. As for the frame I was told by original owner it was a Total Performance frame and it is angled quite a bit. One more thing I just ran into today. My front spring needs 7/8 bushings in the spring for the shackle. Doe's anyone know where to get them. Oh and many thanks for the flash job on the photo.

 

[RESINATOR]

The other thing I continue to see happen is that people keep finish welding brackets on to a frame when the frame, chassis parts, motor/trans and body have not been mounted. At the least you should have all the parts for the area of the frame being set up. Ideally all the frame brackets should be tack welded in place until most of the car has been fully assembled, the car will be coming apart for paint and chroming so the finish welding can be done then.
The other option is to buy a frame that has been welded in a fixture from a reputable company that offers all the suspension, bodies and knowledge of your motor/trans combo. Then as you progress, you can buy the parts to finish the chassis as your budget allows with the confidence that you will not be doing things more then once. I would suggest, if possible, to buy those parts from the same manufacture. To assume that a part from one company will fit another's frame is a bit optimistic.

 

[RESINATOR]

Pete and Jakes makes/sells them. We stock them also, just specify a spring width ( 1 3/4" or 2" )

 

[Jeff]

1 3/4 spring w 7/8 eye using speedway shackles with shock plates. I know what you mean about fitting it all up first. This all started with a rat rod T I purchased for 2500 bucks running and driving but no front brakes and a shody steering set up. Then I ran across another T on craigs list in Detriot for 1100 Had a new top the bows and this frame with the brackets windshield mount brackets body with bed the mock up coulme with steering wheel master cylinder and brackets along with the steering box and chrome arm for it. the snaps for the top and a 32 grill shell with the chrome insert. It also had the front shock towers rear shock bracket and front perch set up for 4 inch drop. well i only had a new 3 inch drop axle like on the rat rod. I had already purchased a spindle and brake set from speedway for the rat rod but decided this was the better frame of the two and the kick was too high on the rat rod for the bed of body to sit on it. So it became the donor car for the smooth back 9 inch. I have almost ever thing now to put it together and am final fitting it all. Most of the brackets on the frame are either right and welded or bolted on so no problems there. It is set up for SBC but I am going with a SBF with JW bell housing and a TH350 trans so I am going to use the trans mount that is bolted in. The guy I got it from in Detroit works at a Rod shop and this is what they do on their lunch hour. Build cars their own so it's pretty much right, just have to mod it for me with what I have and can get.

 

[Jeff]

Oh! and at least the 4 bar mounts are only tacked if I have to move them. They came on the frame where they are.

 

[Jeff]

New 7 degree ends arrived! problem solved many thanks to all. Now what to do with the ends I have left over since purchase was too old to return them. Plus I found another set. Probably ebay them out. Some how I ended up with two sets of ends while collecting parts for the project. Ok! I put the ends on and they look to be in about the right place for rear end mounting. Now for the next question. What drive shaft length do you all recommend? It looks to be at a usable length and the shock mounts look close to the right position. I would just like to have something to go by. I think I am going to order a 302 setup block that I can bolt the bell housing and trans case to to check the fit and get engine the mounts in right with. Should be able to part with it when I get done and get most of the funds back considering the hassle it will save me in my application with the GM tanny. Thank You Jeff

 

[fletcherson]

New 7 degree ends arrived! problem solved many thanks to all. Now what to do with the ends I have left over since purchase was too old to return them. Plus I found another set. Probably ebay them out. Some how I ended up with two sets of ends while collecting parts for the project. Ok! I put the ends on and they look to be in about the right place for rear end mounting. Now for the next question. What drive shaft length do you all recommend? It looks to be at a usable length and the shock mounts look close to the right position. I would just like to have something to go by. I think I am going to order a 302 setup block that I can bolt the bell housing and trans case to to check the fit and get engine the mounts in right with. Should be able to part with it when I get done and get most of the funds back considering the hassle it will save me in my application with the GM tanny. Thank You Jeff

You should get the engine, trans, rearend mocked up where they will live, install the front yoke all the way in and measure from the center to center of the u joint mounts, then subtract 1 inch. You have to have that room for the slip joint to move. At least that is how I have always done it. There isn't a t bucket size shaft that I am aware of due to the variables. Mine is only about 8 inches, yours will likely be different. I would suggest waiting until everything else is fitted, in case you have to move something. I cut and weld my own driveshafts, but there are companies that do it. Napa usually has a driveline shop where they provide similar services as do others, I'm sure. The last one I had done was around 100.00, but that was a while ago. Better call around.

 

[Jeff]

Thanks for the drive shaft info. I knew to allow for slip, but not how much I needed to allow. I didn't know how short I could be either and I should be more than eight inches I think. Wheel base mock up measures right around 100 inches, not a perfect measurement but a good idea of it. Setup block cut trans TH400 case on the way. Should be able to mock it up real good that way. Just a few photos of mock up at this point to pass along. If anyone id's the steering box for sure ley me know. Looks to have 31 splines best I counted. I have to change the front spring as it's about two inches to long at about 32 inches. I have a 29 inch I just got to replace it with. I realley would have liked a 29 1/2 or 30 but can get by with the 29 after screwing the spring pivots our a bit. Not sure how the shock mounting will look with the new spring though. May try to find out tomorrow and swap it out.

 

[fletcherson]

Thanks for the drive shaft info. I knew to allow for slip, but not how much I needed to allow. I didn't know how short I could be either and I should be more than eight inches I think. Wheel base mock up measures right around 100 inches, not a perfect measurement but a good idea of it. Setup block cut trans TH400 case on the way. Should be able to mock it up real good that way. Just a few photos of mock up at this point to pass along. If anyone id's the steering box for sure ley me know. Looks to have 31 splines best I counted. I have to change the front spring as it's about two inches to long at about 32 inches. I have a 29 inch I just got to replace it with. I realley would have liked a 29 1/2 or 30 but can get by with the 29 after screwing the spring pivots our a bit. Not sure how the shock mounting will look with the new spring though. May try to find out tomorrow and swap it out.View attachment 10917 View attachment 10918 View attachment 10919 View attachment 10920 View attachment 10921 View attachment 10922

Progress! Mine is in limbo at the moment, waiting on parts, motivation, etc...

 

[2old2fast]

frame looks like total performance..steering box is reversed corvair... that box mount puts the column near vertical and between your feet , also putsthe pitman arm really low [close to the ground]...
dave