Belts and braces

[Gerry]

Just an update on the new bits I have sorted out on the T this weekend
First up is the battery strap. Pics will explain.
Second is a tensioning pulley for the water pump belt. As I have NO ancillaries to run on the engine, just the water pump; a simple belt from crank to pump is all I need. Still as we all know these belts stretch and need to be tensioned every now and again. So task for the day is to make a tensioner for the belt. Started witha bit of 2"X1/4" flat. shaped and tried, a few times, then hey presto a bracket. Turned up the shaft which will run a needle bearing and small pulley. Plug welded the shaft to the bracket. Now just need to turn up the pulley for the needle bearing and we should be good to go.
By the way the white bar you see in the background (pic 2) is a body strap. I started with a couple of bolts thro the body to the chassis and then thought why not join them together and make a single strap mount. I will be glassing this in to the body soon. Its all about body/chassis/ seat belt mounts but more on this in the future

Gerry

 

[Mike]

Good stuff.

I need to see what it's going to take to get some tubing bent up to use as a seatbelt mount. I would like to see if I cannot incorporate a driveshaft loop and seatbelt mounts into one crossmember. I'm not sure if I can get the angle on the belts right to accomplish that.

I know a lot of fellows here don't like the idea of seatbelts, but I'll be darned if I'm going to risk getting thrown out of a car by not using them. There's not a whole lot around a guy in a T-Bucket, but there's a lot more around than a guy outside a T-Bucket! :yes:

 

[Rick]

Good stuff.

I need to see what it's going to take to get some tubing bent up to use as a seatbelt mount. I would like to see if I cannot incorporate a driveshaft loop and seatbelt mounts into one crossmember. I'm not sure if I can get the angle on the belts right to accomplish that.

I know a lot of fellows here don't like the idea of seatbelts, but I'll be darned if I'm going to risk getting thrown out of a car by not using them. There's not a whole lot around a guy in a T-Bucket, but there's a lot more around than a guy outside a T-Bucket! :yes:

seat belts are a must Mike BUTTTT If you dont want to get cut in half(incase of an accident)i suggest NOT mounting them to the frame but the body that way if the body seperates from the frame you go with it not parts of you.Remember you have a Total car and the body is held on the frame with rubber expantion plugs.just my opinion Mike better safe than sorry.

 

[Gerry]

Good stuff.

I need to see what it's going to take to get some tubing bent up to use as a seatbelt mount. I would like to see if I cannot incorporate a driveshaft loop and seatbelt mounts into one crossmember. I'm not sure if I can get the angle on the belts right to accomplish that.

I know a lot of fellows here don't like the idea of seatbelts, but I'll be darned if I'm going to risk getting thrown out of a car by not using them. There's not a whole lot around a guy in a T-Bucket, but there's a lot more around than a guy outside a T-Bucket! :yes:

thats kinda wierd. You must have read my mind. I was looking at a 'spider' ( 4 mount points for a driveshaft loop and trying to incorporate the belt mounts into it. Thing is that everyone looks to mount the belts (3 point ) from the outside of a car to the inside. That is you lock the belts into the middle of the car. But I have driven in the UK and USA and I see NO reason you cant mount them the other way around. That is the shoulder strap in the middle and the lock in point on the outside. This way I think I can make a center 'bulge' in between the seats that can hinge forward and hide the belts when on show. Its a matter of not doing whats done;and doing whats needed. I also have a 6mm plate going from the chassis inside the body at the rear to mount the fuel tank on, which gives me another point to hang the belts from.
I am going to post about seatbelt mounts as there has been a few threads about it. Chassis/body/chassis... which is the better way. I have my thoughts which will be in a future post
Gerry

 

[Mike]

Those rubber expansion plugs went in the trash right off the get-go. That design was just plain silly. Threaded inserts welded into the frame is a whole lot stronger and keeps the body where I want it. Mounted on the frame, where it belongs. :thumb:

I don't like the idea of no driveshaft loop being used, either. I've spent too many years seeing stuff get torn up in race cars.

I want to add safety cables or straps to the front mounts on the rear radius rods, too. Ever seen a heim break on a ladder bar car? How do you spell pogo-stick? :wow:

 

[Gerry]

Those rubber expansion plugs went in the trash right off the get-go. That design was just plain silly. Threaded inserts welded into the frame is a whole lot stronger and keeps the body where I want it. Mounted on the frame, where it belongs. :thumb:

I don't like the idea of no driveshaft loop being used, either. I've spent too many years seeing stuff get torn up in race cars.

I want to add safety cables or straps to the front mounts on the rear radius rods, too. Ever seen a heim break on a ladder bar car? How do you spell pogo-stick? :wow:

Mike
You have lost me there. Whats this about rubber expansion plugs. The white bar you see in the pics is screwed right into the chassis on to threaded inserts. Drive shaft loops are essential to stop your butt suffering from high impact or a 'pogo' at the lights.

Sorry did nt see the post above.

Now onto seat belts. If I went to the drag strip in my Topolino and the belts were mounted to the body, the scrutineer would black ball me in an instant. ALL race cars demand that the belts are 'fixed' to the chassis. I understand the concern about a body being ripped off in an accident but, HELL, if its that bad a collision then what the hell. I will ALWAYS mount belts to the chassis and go with the wisdom of EVERY car maker and all race regulations.

If the body is ripped off over me, I think my chances of surviving that kind of crash would be minimal to say the least. IMHO
Gerry
G

 

[Ted Brown]

Gerry, I think he was thinking about (front end of) a rear 4 bar rod, (could also be a front rod if the front broke and caught on the dirt/pavement) hitting the dirt and causing the car to jump up in the air, if a failure happened... not good.

 

[Mike]

Yeah, no way I want to be thrown out of the car, nor do I want the body coming off the frame. The belts (and I'm only looking at lap belts) will get tied to the frame. I don't know what the body currently weighs, but I bet I weigh as much. It's not likely going to go too far with me holding it in. :winkn:

 

[Gerry]

Yeah, no way I want to be thrown out of the car, nor do I want the body coming off the frame. The belts (and I'm only looking at lap belts) will get tied to the frame. I don't know what the body currently weighs, but I bet I weigh as much. It's not likely going to go too far with me holding it in. :winkn:

We had a seat belt LAW brought in 40 years ago or so. Its now got to the stage of second nature. IF I get in to a car and forget to put the belt on it feels as it somethings wrong... somethings missing. You actually feel unsafe. Dont get me wrong I hate wearing a seat belt. I am of the age of not having them when I learned to drive, and I fought the introduction of them. Infringment of personal rights etc... bla bla bla
Now I think about my wife and family and if they would curse me for not wearing one. You know what ---- they would. Its an easy choice.
Gerry

 

[Mike]

It's a law here, as well. Billboards everywhere, reminding people to "Click it or ticket!"

For years, the law didn't affect people in trucks. I don't know, apparently people in trucks don't get involved in accidents? I always wore my belt anyway. I actually feel adults should be able to make their own decisions, but I guess we don't need children losing their parents. It takes a second to fasten it, I do it without thinking about it and it's ready to help protect me if something goes wrong.

Actually, it's there to pin me in place so the air bag cover gets a straight shot at my face! :beat:

 

[Gerry]

It's a law here, as well. Billboards everywhere, reminding people to "Click it or ticket!"

For years, the law didn't affect people in trucks. I don't know, apparently people in trucks don't get involved in accidents? I always wore my belt anyway. I actually feel adults should be able to make their own decisions, but I guess we don't need children losing their parents. It takes a second to fasten it, I do it without thinking about it and it's ready to help protect me if something goes wrong.

Actually, it's there to pin me in place so the air bag cover gets a straight shot at my face! :beat:

Now if you can come up with a way to put an airbag in a 15T steering wheel that would be neat. I am THINKING about airbags in the sides of the body though. And it will still be a Fad T. Its all about the thinking process. What can be done not what cant be done
G

 

[leg show T]

I like the way everyone is thinking. To keep the T-Bucket alive, we have to start thinking ahead. We've been going backwards


for so many years!? ANDY'S INSTANT T was maybe one of the nicest Roadsters ever built, AMBR T-Bucket of the '70's. The car

had fenders, seatbelts, wipers, everything to be street legal. Beautiful car! Sorry to say, but this is the direction we're headed. WE'VE ALWAYS

BEEN ABLE TO BEAT THE MAN, ----------BUT NOW WE HAVE NO ONE REPRESENTING US IN SACRAMENTO. Other states are following suit. SEMA and

other parts people are simply trying to make money for themselves. We had people that are now in their 60's and 70's that have been watching the law for years.

We don't have these guys anymore. It takes smart people and smart representation. We fell asleep at the wheel, sorry to say, and sad.

They're trying to get hotrodders to smog everything. ---------------This will lead to the end of the T-Bucket era

in CA. The modern day street rod is going to be more expensive to build and if we don't stay in front of the game, the era for this

car will be gone as we know it. In CA, they can pull you over, load your car on a trailer, and tow it away. Bob Nunes

 

[GAB]

Well, it's not airbags but a little something better than fiberglass and toothpicks. I've never understood the idea that bodies will come unattached from the frame in an accident if decent mounting fasteners are used. And by decent, I don't mean those rubber expansion plugs that TP used. I'd think that a motor and transmission assembly would be more likely to launch themselves during a sudden stop as they would have much more kinetic energy and mass.

 

[Mike]

George, it might be my fault for not noticing, but are you making any progress with that car? Looking at that particular photo, there's a lot happening there that is really slick. I hope you are or will keep photographic record of the build.

And yes, if you want the body to come off your car, the rubber expansion design virtually assures it. Fasten it the right way and it will stay wherever you put it.

 

[rcnurd]

Yeah, no way I want to be thrown out of the car, nor do I want the body coming off the frame. The belts (and I'm only looking at lap belts) will get tied to the frame. I don't know what the body currently weighs, but I bet I weigh as much. It's not likely going to go too far with me holding it in. :winkn:

I don't know how this one was fastened, but I wouldn't want to be belted in to it....

 

[leg show T]

Looks like the driver may have died. This is a perfect example where seatbelts wouldn't have helped. The cars are as dangerous
as a motorcycle, only you don't have a helmet. The body should have never came off the frame. If it had been bolted down
properly, the energy of the collision should have been partially absorbed by the fiberglass and some of the internal structure including frame and cross member,
and stayed intact upon contact. Having said that, I don't think it would have mattered. When your time's up, it's up. Thank you for the post. Bob Nunes

 

[Old Rotor Flap]

Attention; Opinion Expressing is in Effect.

A. Drive shaft loops; I want a couple of 360 degree loops, so the shaft doesn't drop to the ground and so it doesn't come into the car and become the Grim-Castrater. OK, that was a tacky reference. How about a splayed drive shaft tube opening up your leg? Even if it happened in front of the Paramedics' shop, you could bleed out before they could respond.

If I have the drive shaft loop and seat belts on the same loop, I'll know when the shaft fails as the bumping will pull my butt deeper into the seat.... just kidding... sorta. Most drive shafts on T's are short enough to not launch the car into a Cirque du Soleil rears over fronts. That doesn't negate the need for the loops. Loops are just good thinking and practice. I'd also be concerned a rogue shaft could cut brake and fuel lines. The additional cost, weight and effort can prove valuable.

B. Typically, we afix a plywood floor to the body and especially so in glass bodies. We think this makes for a stronger , monolithith-ish-mass. The practice tends to give a builder the impression the body is now just like the whole car and is perceived as strong as the collective strength of the total of the components. That just isn't so, as I see it. I became more enlightnen here in another thread when I finally disassociated the body assembly from the chassis. In an emergency situation, you need to stay with the damaged, but intact car. Sacrificing a wheel is fine, but don't leave the major mass of disapating energy.
George has given us a ton of insight to the situation with his structural/cage approach..... it's brilliant! Down-under builders are required to provide a sub-structure. Yup, I'm sure that keeps some builder out of the game and I'm glad it's not a requirement here. But, it really makes sense.

Let's see.. what else? I don't know, it's the wine and old age.

 

[Mike]

A. Drive shaft loops; I want a couple of 360 degree loops, so the shaft doesn't drop to the ground and so it doesn't come into the car and become the Grim-Castrater. OK, that was a tacky reference. How about a splayed drive shaft tube opening up your leg? Even if it happened in front of the Paramedics' shop, you could bleed out before they could respond.

Back in the Dark Ages, John Pott was hired to drive Larry Coogle's Sting Omni nitro funny car. And the car broke the pinion coupler. The tin work didn't slow it down a bit, either. The shaft got up and broke John's tailbone and beat the poor guy to pieces. Just watching the poor guy try to walk was painful.

I agree the driveshaft in a T is pretty short, but I have a distinct aversion to rapidly spinning parts getting into me or whatever I am driving. If I can keep the driveshaft from damaging the body, fuel lines, brakelines, etc., I am going to do it. I said it before and Bob just punctuated my thought that a T-Bucket is little more than a 4-wheel motorcycle.

Bob, do you have any connection to Ron Nunes, by any chance? I worked at McKinney Corp. Race Cars several years ago and used to sell Ron some pieces every now and again.

 

[LarryH]

I said it before and Bob just punctuated my thought that a T-Bucket is little more than a 4-wheel motorcycle.

That's pretty much how i describe my T-Bucket to people after they remark about how small it is.

A drive shaft loop? I guess after watching the drive shaft in my slammed '71 Chevy truck bounce across the freeway at 70 mph, taking out the rear brake lines in the process, a drive shaft sounds like a pretty good idea.

 

[benT]

here's my take on the drive shaft loop---I incorporated one with as sort of a rear cross-member. I have a pretty long driveshaft compared to some of you, and I made sure that it would keep me from pogo vaulting or bashing through the floor. Also note the body mounts. All of mine (10 total) are bracketed off the frame and are bolted through the floor with plates to spread the load out. My body will not separate from the frame. As for belts I currently do not have any installed but I made concessions for them. I have been thinking alot about finally adding them. I'll be interested to hear all the opinions.