Panhard vs Dead Perch

[Zandoz]

My front suspension will be a mono-leaf spring over axle 4-bar set up, with rack & pinion steering. Other than the simplicity of the dead perch, is there any functional advantage for either. I remember reading an ebay ad for a dead perch that claimed reduction of bump steer...if this is really the case, it seems to me it would be a good idea with my R&P steering. <shrug>

 

[choppedtop]

I have that on one of my cars, and don't really notice any difference. I have been told that dead perch was mainly used for round tracks.
Lee

 

[Golly]

Can't see any theoretical advantage from one to the other. If the r&p is runs front to back , pushing and pulling the steering rod, it's things moving in different arcs that create bump steer. The axle locator can't change that.

 

[fluidfloyd]

Correct me if I'm wrong but I was thinking a dead perch was used to prevent a cross steer unit from moving the axle right to left. Sometimes spring shackles get sloppy or the spring flexes and allows that unwanted movement. That's why some people use a front panard bar. I might well be wrong on this as I have never run one but do remember reading about them some years ago. Take care.

George

 

[Golly]

It's not only in a cross steer car fluidfloyd. Theoretically the axle can swing side to side in the shackles , or move sideways in a corner, as the body wants to go straight and the axle goes round the corner. The panhard bar or dead perch stops that. but I can't think of any big advantage of one over the other

 

[Zandoz]

To me, the dead perch has the advantage of simplicity...No extra bars, heims, brackets, and bracket welding. If there is no disadvantage compared to a panhard bar...especially in handling quality.

 

[iajjpop]

When I put a panhead bar on mine , I felt I had control of my front end , before it drove like it had A mind of its own. On A rough road I didn't feel like I had any control. Best thing I ever put on my car...

 

[Zandoz]

When I put a panhead bar on mine , I felt I had control of my front end , before it drove like it had A mind of its own. On A rough road I didn't feel like I had any control. Best thing I ever put on my car...

Did you have a dead perch prior to the panhard bar?

 

[fluidfloyd]

To me, the dead perch has the advantage of simplicity...No extra bars, heims, brackets, and bracket welding. If there is no disadvantage compared to a panhard bar...especially in handling quality.

Bill...Been thinking about the dead perch idea and I.m not so sure I like it. Looks to me like spring would take some center clamping point to the dead perch point change in length as it arched under load variations. While not much it would change some. The panard bar is an isolated function component and sees no issues from spring/shackle movement. I think I favor the panard bar. I went to google and came up with discussion and you might want to read through it. Hope this will help you out.
George

http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/threads/dead-perch.410949/

 

[choppedtop]

I have heard there are drawbacks to the dead perch, but don't remember what they are, but as of yet not experienced any.
Lee

 

[Zandoz]

Bill...Been thinking about the dead perch idea and I.m not so sure I like it. Looks to me like spring would take some center clamping point to the dead perch point change in length as it arched under load variations. While not much it would change some. The panard bar is an isolated function component and sees no issues from spring/shackle movement. I think I favor the panard bar. I went to google and came up with discussion and you might want to read through it. Hope this will help you out.
George

http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/threads/dead-perch.410949/

Well, so much for that idea...LOL. I was hoping to simplify things, but I'll not sacrifice handling and driveability.

 

[PotvinGuy]

Is this what you have in mind:

That's a complete Speedway 4-bar axle with spring and panhard. I put the R&P in the front crossmember. Works real good.
Another view:

 

[fletcherson]

Is this what you have in mind:

That's a complete Speedway 4-bar axle with spring and panhard. I put the R&P in the front crossmember. Works real good.
Another view:

Nice! I am in the process of updating a T and was considering a r/p, but was discouraged after reading hours of debates about bump steer. What is your experience? Also, do you have any clearance issues with that pan hard bar?

 

[Zandoz]

Is this what you have in mind:

That's a complete Speedway 4-bar axle with spring and panhard. I put the R&P in the front crossmember. Works real good.
Another view:

I've admired the look of your setup since I first saw it. In my case the setup will be Mostly Speedway to...but it will be spring over instead of spring behind, and the spring will be a mono-leaf. The R&P unit will be below the crossmember

 

[iajjpop]

Did you have a dead perch prior to the panhard bar?

NO

 

[fluidfloyd]

(Quote):
I've admired the look of your setup since I first saw it. In my case the setup will be Mostly Speedway to...but it will be spring over instead of spring behind, and the spring will be a mono-leaf. The R&P unit will be below the crossmember


Bill


Bill...As to PotvinGuy's car I can tell you it is really a nice piece. I saw it several time in the Dallas/Fort Worth area before I moved. I think the last time was the Goodguys event at the FTW NASCAR track in early 2001-2003. My friend was all over that blower set up and didn't have a camera so I took quite a few for him. I was more interested in the R&P steering so I took a number of pictures of it. Since I'm working out of town these days I don't have much on my laptop but next trip home I'll bring back my external backup drive and see about getting a few posted. I do know he has redone a number of things in the car but not sure about the front suspension. Looks to be the same and I'm sure he will let us know shortly. I to have question the bump steer issue but he said it works fine and he has the miles to back that up so there you go. I have had a front rack mount in my mind a lot of years and just haven't been home long enough to do anything about it. I have decided to get the car laid out in autocad and play with several versions just in case I ever get another day off.

 

[PotvinGuy]

Thanks, guys. Like so many of you, my bucket is my big pride and joy. Lotsa blood, sweat and $$$.

Bump steer has never been significant. I've been driving it for 20 years, on the interstates and around town. The one thing I do want to add is a steering damper. With R&P, you get total feedback from the road and a pothole can give your wrists quite a jerk. Here's a bunch of pics: https://plus.google.com/photos/104971212334307682869/albums/5552767776876190417
If you want any details, just ask and I can take a pic. Oh, never had a problem with Panhard clearance; I've banged the oil and tranny pans many times, tho!

 

[Zandoz]

Thanks, guys. Like so many of you, my bucket is my big pride and joy. Lotsa blood, sweat and $$$.

Bump steer has never been significant. I've been driving it for 20 years, on the interstates and around town. The one thing I do want to add is a steering damper. With R&P, you get total feedback from the road and a pothole can give your wrists quite a jerk. Here's a bunch of pics: https://plus.google.com/photos/104971212334307682869/albums/5552767776876190417
If you want any details, just ask and I can take a pic. Oh, never had a problem with Panhard clearance; I've banged the oil and tranny pans many times, tho!

Which type of damper are you planning on...the type in the steering shaft, or the type that fastens to one of the tie rods? My plan is to add a damper down the road, after I get at least the majority of the car together...but I've not decided on which type.

 

[PotvinGuy]

The one in the steering shaft is a vibration damper, but it might help a little. I have one of the So-Cal dampers, but it is ugly (it is just a VW part with a cheap clamp added, shame on So-Cal). I've been looking at off-road vehicle dampers as a possibility; they would go from a steering arm to the frame. The bikers have a great looking bunch of adjustable billet dampers, but no one makes a comparable unit for street rods. I'm surprised that one of the fancy shock makers, like Aldan or QA1, hasn't done this.

 

[fletcherson]

The one in the steering shaft is a vibration damper, but it might help a little. I have one of the So-Cal dampers, but it is ugly (it is just a VW part with a cheap clamp added, shame on So-Cal). I've been looking at off-road vehicle dampers as a possibility; they would go from a steering arm to the frame. The bikers have a great looking bunch of adjustable billet dampers, but no one makes a comparable unit for street rods. I'm surprised that one of the fancy shock makers, like Aldan or QA1, hasn't done this.

I have used universal ones, that are basically heavy duty shock absorbers, on trucks, they work good, but you would have to be creative to make em look good. What about taking a chrome shock and fabricating some trick brackets? Do I smell an opportunity here? Lol