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parts failure does occur

Northstar T

Supporting Member
Supporting Member
These failures of really top quality builds really freak me out:.
387071853.jpg
. I'm still waiting to hear what actually happened on this accident, but first report was of a failure in the front end that invited a sudden "exit... stage left" for the driver (who survived with only a broken leg).I trust my welds and fabricating skills...... but I guess some self doubt can be a healthy thing to..maybe I WILL change those clevis over to rod ends on my hairpins. the binding action in this type of construction HAS been in the back of my mind all along on my N* T project.

Wile involved int the world of hang gliding, our national organization made a concerted effort to document any and all accedents. by following these events over the years, many many changes were made to our equipment and procedures that lowered the accedent rate by a significant factor. perhaps we, as hot rodders, shoud concider a similar practice???
Russ
 
These failures of really top quality builds really freak me out:.
387071853.jpg
. I'm still waiting to hear what actually happened on this accident, but first report was of a failure in the front end that invited a sudden "exit... stage left" for the driver (who survived with only a broken leg).I trust my welds and fabricating skills...... but I guess some self doubt can be a healthy thing to..maybe I WILL change those clevis over to rod ends on my hairpins. the binding action in this type of construction HAS been in the back of my mind all along on my N* T project.

Wile involved int the world of hang gliding, our national organization made a concerted effort to document any and all accedents. by following these events over the years, many many changes were made to our equipment and procedures that lowered the accedent rate by a significant factor. perhaps we, as hot rodders, shoud concider a similar practice???
Russ


Russ
Great idea. I have always been suspicious of clevis mounts. I have used spherical bearings throughout the Fads construction and in DOUBLE shear everywhere. There is one place where I have been forced to use single shear but it is bothering me and I wil find a way to change it. Every spherical I have used is held in place with a pin. The head of the pin is bigger than the spherical housing so if the bearing fails the part is still capitvated by the pin head.

It would be a good idea to put another section somewhere for the failures but BEWARE that everyone, including the authorities will have access to it.

Gerry
 
Saw this on volksrods the other day. Here's the follow-up.

" Gentlemen, my name is Lonnie Gilbertson, I built and own the Fire Bug. I appreciate and am humbled by the concerns expressed here. I am 65 years old and have been building cars all my life. (check me out at Lonnie's Place.com). I want to share the truth in hopes that I can prevent someone else bearing the grief that befell me. I took crap from my V8 buddies when I started to build my bug, however, I remembered the 1835 in my Dune Buggy I did in the 70's and knew the potential. Being an old Hot Rodder the early Ford straight axle kit by Speedway appealed to me, so I bought a 1975 standard Bug and was on my way. I will be happy to share the build with anyone that needs information. But for now I will skip to taking my 2332 cc 091 bus transaxxle Hot Rod Fire Bug to the Portland Roadster Show. At shows end to the amazement of several people I drove it home. I left the show floor all smiles by the time I got home I was all frowns. The car was un-drivable. To keep the car between the curbs was a major undertaking. In analyzing the problem, I discovered that sitting on the ground I had a normal 1/8" toe in, I could jack the car up at the perch bolts and it wold change to 1/2" toe out. At this point you might think bump steer, however, lifting at the perch bolds induces no suspension movement. The problem was axle flex. I could measure from the frame to the center of the king pin, jack it up to take the weifht off the tire and the king pin would move out 1/8" plus. This on a car that weighs little on the front compared to the V8 this setup should carry. With my experience it did not take long to figure out the steering set-up Speedway said to use would not work. I bought a cross steer rack and pinion and set it up in a traditional Hot Rod style. In an unconventional way I built my own steering arms and hooked everything at the top of the spindle. Thinking I might have created my own problem I bought Speedway dropped steering arms and moved the tie rod to the bottom of the spindle, like it would be stock. The net result was 1/4" tow change instead of 5/8" with the tie rod on top. I called Speedway and was told that I bought an early kit and all their early kits were junk, they have done a re-desigh to correct problems. I told them I had corrected the problems, however, I had trouble with axle flex, they told me to call the Manufacturer, it wasn't their problem. A call to the Manufacturer put me in touch with the owner he was very interested in helping me fix my problem. He suggested different alignment settings. Changing to his suggested settings the car semed to settle down. On Friday evening I test drove the car and had a friend do the same, although it was not perfect it seemed safe. Five O'clock Saturday morning I left my house by 5:10 am the Fire Bug was destroyed. A friend that was following said that it looked like the car dropped on the right front and left the road. From the drivers seat the Bug took a hard right, in trying to steer left nothing happened, I impacted a mail box, an oak tree, and a telephone pole. With cross steering the right front is the master and left the slave. If the right becomes disconnected you have no control of the left. It happened so fast I can't tell the order of events the only facts I know are:(1) it is a 5" drop cast iron axle,(2) The king pin boss on the right front is broken in half. (3) The axle is broken in half 2" inboard of the perch bolt. (4) The heavy damage to the right front wheel is on the inside as if it was turned hard right on impact. (5) I could not bring the car left once it took off right. (6) A friend that was following said it looked like the car dropped to the right before it left the road. I will never! Never! Ever run a cast axle again. On a personal note admit-tingly I am a Sunny Day Driver, however, I do not own Trailer Queens. I hope this helps someone. Thanks for letting me express myself. This is the first time I have ever posted anything to any site. I hope this will get read and not lost. Thank You,
Lonnie
Last edited by ducecoupe; Yesterday at 10:16 PM. "

"To look at the axel it looks like it just snapped. The outside of the king pin boss showed some clean break and also some dark places that went into the bore. The metal post mail box hit just right of center, the right front hit the curb first and than the oak tree, the left front hit the telephone pole. Guess I am lucky that a big rock was not in place also. Hope this helps. Lonnie "

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Wow the axle broke, not a smaller part like a clevis! That almost looks like a cast part to me from the picture, but I can't be sure. It was in a VW also, so there was not much front end weight.
 
Wow the axle broke, not a smaller part like a clevis! That almost looks like a cast part to me from the picture, but I can't be sure. It was in a VW also, so there was not much front end weight.


I don't think I would ever chance a cast axle. I'd rather use a good 'ole forged one from Henry or a good fabricated tube axle. I feel pretty good with the tube ones. I know that its not going to shear off--maybe bend, but not break.
 
I read the whole article and it was a cast one from Speedway I believe. It's not made by Speedway but they did tell the owner of the car to contact the manufacture. That I'd like to know.
 
I've been vocal about cast v forged axles and spindles for some time.

In airplane drawing class they preach, no castings, no weldments. Although, I can point out any number of items in helicopters and other aircraft that are castings and weldments.

As I've said, I have a forged axle from Chassis Engineering. Actually, it's their tube axle that has forged ends welded into a tube..... oops! Did I say welded into a tube. Guilty, but it's far better than cast ends welded into the tube.

Cast axles are simply not acceptable to me and yes, it's an opinion.
The same goes for spindles and steering arms - NFC = no castings


 
I've been vocal about cast v forged axles and spindles for some time.

In airplane drawing class they preach, no castings, no weldments. Although, I can point out any number of items in helicopters and other aircraft that are castings and weldments.

As I've said, I have a forged axle from Chassis Engineering. Actually, it's their tube axle that has forged ends welded into a tube..... oops! Did I say welded into a tube. Guilty, but it's far better than cast ends welded into the tube.

Cast axles are simply not acceptable to me and yes, it's an opinion.
The same goes for spindles and steering arms - NFC = no castings



There have been a few failures in the UK with these types of axles. Some guys say you can actually see them bend on the road.
Gerry
 
First off, thank you T-Odd for the follow up report. that was very informative. unfortunatly I have to shake my head on so many comments and revelations that I've become dizzy.
edit: I've erased and will wait to comment further on this, before I get myself in trouble............. again :thumb: .

Russ
 
Didn't Speedway have problems with there chrome pitman arms, radius rods and now axles? I bet if you look real closely you might see "Made in China"!The chinese labor isn't the only thing cheap. Not all steel is created equal.You can cut cost on somethings but you can't afford to on others like these!
 
two broken Speedway pitman arms (one Corvair and one Vega box) and a fabricated batwing that I've seen pics of (and one axle now). Cast parts are not suspension parts IMHO.
Russ
 
I believe some of the part makers here in the US also use imported steel, I can not buy the steel (US Steel) for what some are selling finished radius rods for... I know it is terrible to flame cut, as it blows back when it comes across a split layer in the center of the plate steel.. Like everyone else, I am not a fan of castings for anything important and something that needs to be strong... Ride safe :) People talk about OLD worn out spindles, unless they are really worn to the eye, not just old, they are at least made very safe and strong, old steel is great steel, just check for cracks before hand... :)
 
I think these were Speedway Stainless radius rods.

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That doesn't look like very good penetration to me.
 
My guess is that hair pin broke on impact after the axle broke. I don't think there is that much stress on that hair pin.

Goes to remind everyone that a good looking weld is not always a SAFE weld. These pics give me the willies! After seing some of these failures, I'm sure glad that we're the ones building our own 4 bars, hairpins and brackets. Just got 50' of 1" DOM seamless tube today for the hairpins on our new bucket build. We'll definitely be focusing on some goooooood penetration of our welds!
 
My guess is that hair pin broke on impact after the axle broke. I don't think there is that much stress on that hair pin.
RON, I SURE AM HOPING THAT YOU ARE NOT MEANING THAT RADIUS ROD WAS CORRECT IN ANY WAY..?? THAT IS A FUSION WELD ONLY, THE RODS WERE NOT V CUT AT ALL, AND YES THEY ARE UNDER A TON OF STRESS, ALL THE TIME... I HAVE SEEN WAY TOO MANY OF THIS VERY SAME THING HAPPEN, AT THE VERY LEAST A CENTER CONNECTOR SUPPORT WILL HELP LESSEN THE STRESS FACTOR, BUT ALL WELDS NEED TO BE A FULL WELD ALL THE WAY THROUGH THE SEAM CONNECTION... WHEN WELDED CORRECTLY, THE WELD IS NOW THE STRONGEST PART... THIS IS ANOTHER REASON TO RUN THE HECK OUT OF YOUR CAR, ON BACK ROADS TO SEE IF IT HANGS TOGETHER, ESPECIALLY IF YOU DO NOT KNOW WHAT THE WELDS ARE REALLY LIKE... RIDE SAFE, TEST AND TEST SOME MORE BEFORE GETTING OUT ON A BUSY ROAD... THAT TYPE OF WELDING WILL & CAN KILL YOU AND OTHER'S AS WELL... :(
 
Just got 50' of 1" DOM seamless tube today for the hairpins on our new bucket build. We'll definitely be focusing on some goooooood penetration of our welds!

Wow. using DOM on hairpins is top notch. too rich for my blood however. us poow folk have to use 3/4 schedule 80 steel and do a lot more finish work.
I sure agree about building ones own parts however. I also build everything myself. at least I know what I have that way.

Russ
 
RON, I SURE AM HOPING THAT YOU ARE NOT MEANING THAT RADIUS ROD WAS CORRECT IN ANY WAY..?? THAT IS A FUSION WELD ONLY, THE RODS WERE NOT V CUT AT ALL, AND YES THEY ARE UNDER A TON OF STRESS, ALL THE TIME... I HAVE SEEN WAY TOO MANY OF THIS VERY SAME THING HAPPEN, AT THE VERY LEAST A CENTER CONNECTOR SUPPORT WILL HELP LESSEN THE STRESS FACTOR, BUT ALL WELDS NEED TO BE A FULL WELD ALL THE WAY THROUGH THE SEAM CONNECTION... WHEN WELDED CORRECTLY, THE WELD IS NOW THE STRONGEST PART... THIS IS ANOTHER REASON TO RUN THE HECK OUT OF YOUR CAR, ON BACK ROADS TO SEE IF IT HANGS TOGETHER, ESPECIALLY IF YOU DO NOT KNOW WHAT THE WELDS ARE REALLY LIKE... RIDE SAFE, TEST AND TEST SOME MORE BEFORE GETTING OUT ON A BUSY ROAD... THAT TYPE OF WELDING WILL & CAN KILL YOU AND OTHER'S AS WELL... :(

THE POINT I WAS MAKING WAS NOT ABOUT THE QUALITY OF THE WELD. BUT WHICH BROKE FIRST THE AXLE OR THE HAIR PIN?
 

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