Radiator clearances

[Zandoz]

What is the minimum clearance between the radiator and surrounding fiberglass? Between the radiator core and the pullies on the front of the motor?

I'm running into problems finding a radiator that will work with my 60V6, and work with the R&P steering and the sprint car style nose I hope to use.

 

[RPM]

Have you looked at the 66-67 Mustang radiator? It is pretty small, and will cool most v-8s.

 

[jcunning]

Clearance between the back of the electric fan motor and the front of the water pump pulley is 1/4". There is no indication they have ever touched. They are so close I couldn't use the cap on the front of the pulley as designed. Not a problem.

 

[Zandoz]

Have you looked at the 66-67 Mustang radiator? It is pretty small, and will cool most v-8s.

Yea, I've checked them out...as near as I can figure around and inch too wide or several inches too tall. I have to route the steering shaft either around or under the radiator...as low as I'm hoping to get this, going under would be out of the question...going around would require stretching the wheelbase several inches, and even then possibly too many double u-joints.

The best fit I've fouond so far is a FWD Buick Century radiator that is intended for the GM 60V6, that allows me to easily route the steering shaft under it (and has the added benefit of being dirt cheap), but it is a cross-flow unit, and the top corners would be less than a 1/2" from the fiberglass nose, and the radiator cap would protrude through the nose.

 

[Zandoz]

Clearance between the back of the electric fan motor and the front of the water pump pulley is 1/4". There is no indication they have ever touched. They are so close I couldn't use the cap on the front of the pulley as designed. Not a problem.

I don't think I'm brave enough to to risk a 1/4"...LOL. In my situation, the clearance is going to be between the radiator core and the pulley. I plan on using a pusher fan in front of the radiator, inside the nose. I've been planning 1-1/4" minimum, and hoping for around 2", and worried that will not be safe.

 

[RPM]

Look at some of the racing stuff, there is an adapter that will allow you to put the radiator cap in the top hose. I have also seen them on the thermostat housings before.

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/mor-63745/media/images

 

[Zandoz]

Look at some of the racing stuff, there is an adapter that will allow you to put the radiator cap in the top hose. I have also seen them on the thermostat housings before.

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/mor-63745/media/images

Cool! It's even for the 1-1/4" hose size I need. Now I just need to look into the feasibility of having the filler neck removed from the tank....or some kind of bulge to cover it. How much clearance between fiberglass and the radiator are you comfortable with?

 

[EX JUNK]

May I ask why you are so concerned about the clearance between the fiberglass and the radiator? As long as it is not touching there should not be any problem as far as I can see. The radiator should not get hot enough to bother the fiberglass. IMHO.
As for using a pusher fan, are you aware that they are not as efficient in cooling as a puller type? The reason being is that the fan itself blocks some air travel whereas a puller will pull through the entire radiator and with a track nose and its small opening there is already enough air restriction.

Jim

 

[meangreen]

For my track roadster I found an aluminum racing radiator for a 1992-2000 Honda Civic. It is twice as thick as a stock Civic radiator and fits in the sprint car nose with room to spare. Although I am using a 4-banger, I believe this radiator would cool a small-block V-8 as long as it isn't too radical. (Years ago I cooled a 327 Chevy with an Opel Cadet radiator.) The good news is a stock Honda Civic fan bolts right to it. Further good news - I got both for about $100.

 

[Zandoz]

May I ask why you are so concerned about the clearance between the fiberglass and the radiator? As long as it is not touching there should not be any problem as far as I can see. The radiator should not get hot enough to bother the fiberglass. IMHO.
As for using a pusher fan, are you aware that they are not as efficient in cooling as a puller type? The reason being is that the fan itself blocks some air travel whereas a puller will pull through the entire radiator and with a track nose and its small opening there is already enough air restriction.

Jim

I'm just worried about the heat having some kind of an adverse effect on the fiberglass.

Yes, I'm aware of the less efficient pusher orientation, but I would need to lengthen the wheelbase several inches to go to a puller arrangement. As is, the fan will set above the rack & pinion, and the radiator behind it just enough to let the pinion shaft pass under it. To compensate I have a fan that is almost double the CFM of the original unit used with this little V6, and I'm planning on NACA duct under the nose, and if necessary on both sides.

 

[Zandoz]

For my track roadster I found an aluminum racing radiator for a 1992-2000 Honda Civic. It is twice as thick as a stock Civic radiator and fits in the sprint car nose with room to spare. Although I am using a 4-banger, I believe this radiator would cool a small-block V-8 as long as it isn't too radical. (Years ago I cooled a 327 Chevy with an Opel Cadet radiator.) The good news is a stock Honda Civic fan bolts right to it. Further good news - I got both for about $100.

I'd looked at the stock civic radiator and dismissed it because of the already limited air flow that Ex Junk mentioned....but I've not seen an extra thick one like you mention. I'll have to do some more research. No worries about a radical V8...I'm working with a near stock little V6.

 

[meangreen]

Take a look at it here:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/ALUMINUM-DU...Parts_Accessories&hash=item53f3e9df0b&vxp=mtr
Notice the size dimensions - 14.5 x 16.5 x 2. If your sprint car nose is similar to mine, you may have room to put the R&P under the radiator and still get everything inside the nose. It's not visible in the picture I have attached, but when viewed from the front, the bottom of my radiator is above the top of the front axle beam. I will also have to use a remote filler in the top hose because the stock Honda cap is inside the nose. The good thing is, it fit together without having to put a bulge in the nose to clear the cap. As for radiator heat hurting the fiberglass - don't worry about it. My Model-A coupe has a fiberglass '32 grille shell over an aluminum '66 Mustang radiator. The top corners of the shell are resting right on the top corners of the radiator and after 8 years the shell and the paint show no damage.

 

[Zandoz]

Take a look at it here:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/ALUMINUM-DU...Parts_Accessories&hash=item53f3e9df0b&vxp=mtr
Notice the size dimensions - 14.5 x 16.5 x 2. If your sprint car nose is similar to mine, you may have room to put the R&P under the radiator and still get everything inside the nose. It's not visible in the picture I have attached, but when viewed from the front, the bottom of my radiator is above the top of the front axle beam. I will also have to use a remote filler in the top hose because the stock Honda cap is inside the nose. The good thing is, it fit together without having to put a bulge in the nose to clear the cap. As for radiator heat hurting the fiberglass - don't worry about it. My Model-A coupe has a fiberglass '32 grille shell over an aluminum '66 Mustang radiator. The top corners of the shell are resting right on the top corners of the radiator and after 8 years the shell and the paint show no damage.

View attachment 7670

I found a good deal on a 3-row Civic radiator...less than $110 for the radiator and a fan. The size has solved the clearance issues. Now I just need to figure out how I'm going to handle the transmission cooler. Thanks!

 

[TrackTV6]

I too am using the GM 60 degree V6 in mine, I was looking into using a radiator made for a midget dirt tracker. I have found several of them from Speedway motors and also Saldana Racing products. My actual engine is a 3.1 from a 1991 Isuzu, but it is pretty much the same as any iron headed 60 degree V6 with the exception of non symetrical engine mounts and having drivers side starter location which the FWD engines do. I have a timing cover off a 3.4 "crate" motor which allows for standard rotation water pump and using the shorter Camaro water pump. I'm going to look into that aluminum Honda radiator now, looks like it has cooling fan shroud mounts already welded on.

 

[meangreen]

Yes, the fan mounts are already welded in place and a stock Honda Civic fan bolts right in place with four small (10 mm) metric bolts. The stock Civic radiator has a single aluminum core with plastic tanks (very common in today's cars), but this racing version is dual core and has welded aluminum tanks. I haven't run mine long enough to find out yet, but it should be a pretty efficient radiator. When I discovered these a few years ago I was amazed at the price; the aluminum radiator in my Model-A cost 5 times as much and I thought IT was a good deal...

 

[TrackTV6]

Bought one this morning, http://www.ebay.com/itm/360574476043, $54.88 including shipping! Now to decide if I want to use a stock Honda cooling fan (which are kind of cheap looking) or build a custom shroud and run a SPAL electric fan. Going to get some Honda mounting biscuits and fab up mounts.

 

[meangreen]

The Honda fan is actually pretty stout plus it bolts right on and the shroud fits the radiator. It's not pretty, so if your fan is going to be visible you might prefer building your own. In my case, with a full hood, the fan will not be visible. Besides, Honda has been using them for years without problems...

 

[Zandoz]

Bought one this morning, http://www.ebay.com/itm/360574476043, $54.88 including shipping! Now to decide if I want to use a stock Honda cooling fan (which are kind of cheap looking) or build a custom shroud and run a SPAL electric fan. Going to get some Honda mounting biscuits and fab up mounts.

Please let me know how the 2-row unit works for your 60V6. I've found 2-row units with the transmission cooler, but none with the 3-row...and the 3-row units are of course more expensive.

 

[TrackTV6]

Please let me know how the 2-row unit works for your 60V6. I've found 2-row units with the transmission cooler, but none with the 3-row...and the 3-row units are of course more expensive.

Depending on how soon your project is running, you may beat me to that point.
I hope to have mine running this spring, then tear it apart for paint and have it on the road in 2014.
Are you running a 700R4? I would think that an external transmission cooler such as those offered by B&M and others would suffice in the light duty application you are intending it for.

 

[Zandoz]

Depending on how soon your project is running, you may beat me to that point.
I hope to have mine running this spring, then tear it apart for paint and have it on the road in 2014.
Are you running a 700R4? I would think that an external transmission cooler such as those offered by B&M and others would suffice in the light duty application you are intending it for.

At that rate you'll be far ahead of me....LOL I don't expect to be starting frame construction before fall....if then. Right now I'm in the planning and aquisition phase. Originally I planned on doing the frame then building from there, but so many folks advised having all the main components before doing the frame, that I changed my time line.

Yes, it's a 700R4. I figured it will be some form of an external cooler if I go with the 3-row...I just need to figure out the type and location. I want to keep it out of the radiator air flow if at all possible. It looks like there will be room below the radiator, but I do not know if it will get enough air flow only a few inches behind the front crossmember.