But, as is typical in these situations, how you perceive something is based on your perspective. And the two of us do not share the same perspective.
This is a problem that has really had me thinking, a lot, these last couple weeks. Something needs to be done, but in all honesty, I do not know what that something is. Yes, this is a long-winded post, but step into my world a while, and see things from this perspective. If someone has a sensible solution to this whole support issue, I am all ears. Let me hear your thoughts and ideas. Maybe you are the person who can take this forum to the next level, aye?
I read this particular analogy on another site, but it fits this one, just as well.
Imagine this forum as being a big swimming pool, with separate lanes established. Each lane has a different swimming style, so we do not get people swimming a breast stroke in the crawler's lane, or vice-versa.
The problems come into play when someone decides they want to be a crawler, so they jump into the crawler's lane. Never mind that they have jumped into a
swimming pool, without benefit of actually knowing how to swim. So what ends up happening is these people splash and flounder about, stopping anyone who is trying to swim a crawl stroke, and asking them for instructions on how to swim.
What's the sensible answer, here? Isn't it to suggest the non-swimmer get out of the crawling lane, and go get in the beginner's pool, so they can learn how to swim? Yet, when that solution is offered, the non-swimmers take immediate offense. They claim to be receiving rude treatment, when in fact, they are the ones behaving rudely. They are splashing around, in the wrong lane, wasting the time of the swimmers who simply want to practice their crawl stroke. The crawl lane is not there for people who do not know how to swim, that is what the beginner's pool is all about.
And it doesn't end there. You also have people who jump into the crawl lane, when they can only doggy-paddle. But just like the non-swimmers, the doggy-paddlers want everyone who passes by to teach them how to crawl. Again, what's the sensible response, here? Isn't it to tell the doggy-paddler to get out of the crawl lane, and to take up a position where they can observe the technique of the crawlers? Simply because the crawl lane is set aside for people who can crawl, not for people who cannot. If you cannot see the basics of the crawl stroke, and you need a swimming instructor to hold you up in the water, whilst teaching you how to move your arms, then the solution is as simple as that - you are in the wrong lane.
The first protest that is forming on the lips of everyone is that the crawl lane is apparently set aside for Olympic swimmers, and there is not an established place for less-accomplished crawlers. Which is not correct. The crawl lane is there for crawlers of all skill levels, to help them perfect their stroke. However, the fact remains the crawl lane is
not there for someone who cannot even swim.
Sure, as with anything else, there will be crawlers who are there to show off their skills. They will swim with perfect strokes, they will swim faster than anyone else, and they will be condescendingly rude to anyone asking for help to perfect their own stroke. But those perfect swimmers are not representative of everyone in the lane, and if you pay attention, those are usually the people who are admonished to make nice, or to get out of the pool.
See how the analogy fits right in with the problems we regularly experience here?
We've got people jumping into the crawler's lane, who have zero idea of how to swim. And when it is pointed out they need to learn how to swim before they learn how to crawl, they get pissy about it. Stop and think about it - if someone asks for help, then gets nasty when you offer them the help they need the most, how much help were they really looking for, in the first place? They were never seeking help with a car problem, they were seeking attention for their ego problem.
People, it's one thing to build a model airplane, or a model car. Because no one is going to be trusting their lives by riding in those models. It's OK to build a shed in your back lawn, even if you've never swung a hammer in your life, because no one will be placing their personal safety in that shed.
Does anyone see the tremendous responsibility involved with the planning, building and operation of these motor vehicles? When you are turning left across oncoming traffic, what happens when you go for the throttle and the engine sputters and/or dies? Ever think about who you might be endangering with that wee problem? What about when you are pulling to a stop in a line of traffic, and that brake pedal suddenly drops to the floor? Ever think about who you might be endangering with that wee problem?
If you are going to build, or even just modify a motor vehicle, those processes come with great and tremendous responsibility.
Building a ton of motor vehicle, one that you intend to operate in a public place, where the lives and safety of other people are involved, is not a hand-holding pass time. It is something that not only assumes, but requires certain abilities on the part of the person doing the assembly. And if someone does not have those required abilities, then they are not only involved in the wrong hobby, they are endangering their own lives, as well as the lives of others. They are trying to pretend they can swim, when they really cannot, so not only are they in the wrong lane, they are in the wrong pool.
No two engines are alike. If someone comes here telling me they have what they think is a 377 SBC, with a 3/4 race cam, and a tunnel ram with two big, ol' Holley carbs on it, with the expectation that I can tell them exactly where the set their idle mixture screws, where to set their curb idle, what accelerator pump cams to use, what squirter nozzles to use, and what ignition timing to use, it just is not going to happen. That person needs to do some things. First off, he needs to learn what he has to work with. Then he needs to learn the condition of that engine, by performing simple compression and vacuum tests. Then he needs to see where things are already set, and what happens when he turns this knob to the right, and that knob to the left. Because if he is just guessing and pulling 'facts' out of his arse, then that is exactly the same level of advice anyone will be able to offer.
Want to know the next protest, people are going to present? They are going to try to suggest we are being elitist, because we rebuke their poorly-asked questions. Again, nothing could be further from the truth. We do not rebuke their questions because we are elitist, we rebuke them because they are trivial questions that the asker could have easily solved with just the slightest bit of research. But hey, why should I bother to use a search engine to discover the firing order on a 1989 350 Chevrolet, when I can come here and ask the same question? See, instead of using my own time to do my own research, I can involve two or three more people, by having them answer my trivial question. And I need you to think about this one, as well. If I cannot be bothered to learn the firing order by doing some stupid-simple research, then I am really not wanting to learn anything, am I? I am just here to use up other people's time, by asking trivial questions. And that makes me out to be nothing more than a
help vampire. I am only here to suck the life out of the members of the community who are kind enough to lend their expertise. And in the so-doing, I am making sure my trivial static reduces the signal-to-noise ratio on the threads where the questions are actually not so trivial.
I belong to Linux support forums where if you ask a question without providing full details on the problem, with log files to support those details, as well as a complete outline on the research you have already done, as well as the steps you have already taken to solve the problem, then things get pretty ugly. If you're lucky, you will be outright ignored. If you've proven yourself to be a help vampire in the past, then chances are you will have the skin ripped off your face, as you are booted out the door. I do not want to see this place adopt the RTFM (Read The Feckin' Manual) method of support, but you see, RTFM does have a kinder and gentler cousin. STFW, which means to take the problem you know nothing about, and Search The Feckin' Web, before you start wasting other people's time.
This forum has a search function. Every appropriate thread ever posted is archived on this forum. Use the search function to see how many dozen times your exact question has been asked in the last eight-plus years, before you start wasting other people's time. And believe me, I am not offering this advice to be rude, I am offering it as a straight-forward, cut-the-bullshit offering, from someone who is interested in trying to help people fix genuine problems, rather than handing out warm and fuzzy hugs to make people feel special. Like it or no, you're never going to witness all of us, gathered in a circle, and singing Kumbaya.
Here is another secret on how to search. Use Google to search this site. Here, do this search -
Code:
help vampire: tbucketeers.com
See how that result is exactly what we wanted, and located on this site?
And guess what? It doesn't end there. Because I cannot begin to count the number of times I have witnessed a forum member asking for help, only to have a self-professed 'expert' (read: know-nothing) provide completely wrong answers to the questions asked. So, riddle me this - if someone waddles in here, asks a question on how to to repair his braking system, gets shite advice from a know-nothing, doesn't research the advice he was given, makes a shite repair then ends up injuring or killing someone because his faulty brake system repair failed, who do you think the plaintiff's attorney/s will be naming in the law suit? The know-nothing? You? Or is it going to be me, because I am the one who published the know-nothing's shite advice? Do I have disclaimers in place, to protect me from these kinds of suits? Well, I certainly hope my disclaimers will protect me. But the bottom line is that I cannot afford the attorney's fees, or the time spent in a courtroom, to see if a judge agrees with me.
Mind me relating how I had been exposed to dangerously-high levels of a very toxic chemical, whilst at work? Let me share with you how that played out. I made an appointment with my physician, because I wanted to know just how bad the exposure might have been. And when I walked into that examination room, my ducks were in a neat row. I explained what had happened to my sawbones, as I was placing the Material Safety Data Sheet for the product into his hands, along with a print-out from the National Institute for Occupational Safety and Heath, with their recommendations on the chemical. I didn't wander in there with some lame explanation, saying that whilst the unknown stuff smelled really bad, and it made me have a bad cough, but not a really, really bad cough, I provided the doctor with as much information as I could. And the doctor? He didn't give me some lame suggestion, such as take two aspirin, drink plenty of fluids, and to call him in a week if I died. No, he immediately ordered a complete blood panel, so he could see if any of the organs that chemical targets had been affected by the exposure. I gave him the details he needed to start his diagnosis, and he didn't waste any time thinking about what direction to head. That is how to solve problems.
When someone (and I am really not trying to single anyone out, here) asks for help to stop a motor from detonating, then turns right around, in the same post, mind you, and says the motor runs just fine, what is the real question? Is the flippin' motor detonating? If yes, then it is not running fine, now is it?
Now, you are aware of how I see it. And you are aware that I see it from a completely different perspective than you. I'm not saying I am right and you are wrong, I am saying the system is flawed. I am saying we have people who have no clue about what they are actually trying to accomplish, who are asking silly and nonsensical questions. I am saying that it is not unusual to see those questions being responded to with equally silly and nonsensical answers. And if one of those silly and nonsensical answers ends up hurting someone, I know whose door will be getting chapped on, as the court hands out subpoenas.
The next time you start trying to hand out answers to another member's problems, take a deep breath and ask yourself this question - are you willing to assume liability and accept accountability for your response, even if your advice results in bodily harm? Because, you see, there is accountability and responsibility on both sides of this table. You say you have experience, but how can any of us know that to be true? And no, I do not have, nor do I intend to develop, a system whereby I can vet the qualifications of people.
I'm not naming names, but I've spoken at great length with one of our forum members, and I have plainly stated there are only a tiny handful of people here who I would accept a T-Bucket ride with. Because they are the only ones who have demonstrated their ability to sensibly plan, and to safely execute their plans.
Quite frankly, our support system is so flawed, I do not see a simple fix for it. Other than to simply stifle trivial questions, and not allow them to suck the lifeblood out of our community. If people cannot ask questions in a thoughtful and intelligent manner, show me where it says anyone in this community is expected to waste their time with a response. If people ask questions without being able to provide some simple facts about their problem, show me where it says anyone in this community is expected to dance that silly dance. And let's face it, with all of the different engine combinations our members bring to the table, how can anyone be expected to answer questions like 'why does my engine stumble off idle', without benefit of knowing all of the details of that particular combination?
So, let's clean up your offer. If you know what you are working with, and you know the details of its condition, and you know how to politely ask questions, and you know how to humbly accept advice that is offered, then post about the problem you are having. If you're not savvy enough to research your own problem, then get out of the crawler's lane, go get a pair of water wings, and jump into the beginner's pool, because you are in well over your head.
And if someone has a better plan, then let me hear what you have in mind.
) J.J., in the semi-finals of that race. We stayed at one of J.J.'s houses, whilst we were out there.
