4 speed thoughts

[PaulR]

Looking for some feedback on an idea I've been cooking up in my head. Since I'm getting my engine this coming Friday (WAHOOO!!!), I'm now looking at transmissions. I was originally going with the 350/350 automatic. Now, after seeing the 4 speed that the guy used in his t bucket (on youtube with BC from Spirit), I'm leaning in that direction. I'm thinking of a hand clutch on the gear shift stalk.... I'm trying to decide if it would be better with cable or hydraulic. I've looked at the (brake set-up on my bike as an example) and think that something like that would work. It would have to have more movement/travel I would think. A hydraulic clutch I think would be easier to use by hand. A cable clutch would have less parts, harder to use. I welcome all thoughts and ideas. To me, there is nothing better than a v8 running thru the gears on a manual tranny.

Thanks,
PaulR

 

[Rick]

Paul while not impossible its a daunting task to say the least.Why not get a radicaly built auto so you have the best of both worlds.

 

[PaulR]

Rick,

Not an idea that I have said no to. Just thinking outside the box a little (maybe too much). Look at doing something different. It'll all probably come down to $$ and cents. Thanks for the input.

PaulR

 

[Todd]

Do they still have the manual valve body autos? Or is it just a strip/race trans?

 

[donsrods]

The idea scares me a little. There is a reason no car manufacturer or any car builders I know of have ever used a hand clutch. Besides the safety issue I think it would be a pain to drive in traffic........you will end up with one HUGE hand. Regardless of how much mechanical advantage you built in, a hand or arm is nowhere near as strong as your left leg.

I've had hot rods with sticks and also automatics, and I like a built automatic so much more. In my '27 things happened so fast when I nailed it that shifting was the last thing I wanted to concentrate on, and consequently I regularly overpegged the tach. These things also get a little squirrelly when your foot is deep in the firewall, and that 1-2 shift can put you sideways in a heartbeat (don't ask how I know).

Some things are best left alone.

Don

 

[MDANIELSON55]

ime running a top loader 4 speed behind a blown 351c mechanical linkage not a lot of room but i like it. if you go chev try a 2 speed glide auto with a hyd clutch. check your dirt track buddies some late models and imca modifides run them

 

[PaulR]

Don,

I can see your point. I know what you mean by things happening fast on the 1-2 shift. It happens faster on my bike:lol:...like you say.. (don't ask how I know). I can see that a cable/clutch would be harder than a hyd. one. Not that the hyd. would be easy. This is all in the what if.. stage.

Todd,

A manual valve body? Would that require you to manully downshift too?

M55,

Hmmm... That sounds interesting... I had a 2 speed many years ago.. low gear up 70 then into high.

Thanks for the feedback. I do appreciate it.

PaulR

 

[RPM]

Do they still have the manual valve body autos? Or is it just a strip/race trans?

I have a manual shift turbo 400 behind the blower engine,with a 3500 converter. I like it a lot, never miss a gear and don't have to hold the clutch in at lights.

I think you will find that the pressure plate in a car is a LOT stronger that that of a bike. It will be near impossible to work a hyd cylinder with your hand enough to release that clutch.

Jus a thought put the brake master on the inside of the frame and a clutch master on the outside of the frame. The masters can be put way toward the rear of the car and use a long rod to work it.

 

[PaulR]

RPM,

A turbo 400....had a long shaft one in my pontiac after I tore up the 2 speed. It did hold up with my driving habits back then.
Do you have to downshift manually? Say....when stopping at a light?
I know the clutch pull would be harder than my bike. I guess it's not even a comparison. Just something I wanted to throw out there.
I am beginning to think that Don is right about the safety of such an idea.
Especially if my better half drives it or one of my kids drives it.

I think I'll stick with the automatic. I'll just check into getting it built to some degree.

Thanks for the input.

PaulR

 

[Bill Pedersen]

Hi Paul,
I havent started on my T-bucket yet, but I am going to build a 4 or 5-speed car. I am going to use an extended body and build an under dash swing pedal assembly. I plan on using a hydraulic clutch and having both the slave cylinder and master cylinder mount at 90 degrees from the pedals. There are a couple of companies that make 90-degree brake assemblies, but they are a little bigger than I want and the clutch doesnt mount 90 degrees.
It would be cheaper and a lot less work to go with the automatic, but it just depends on what you want.
Bill

 

[der Spieler]

Bill...What's the source of the assembly in the bottom picture? I'm putting a 5-spd in my salt racer and that looks like the setup I want.

 

[Bill Pedersen]

It is from Kugel. Welcome to Kugel Komponents - Products - Universal Brake System

 

[der Spieler]

Thanks. I'll check them out.

 

[Leon renaud]

Thanks. I'll check them out.

If anyone has a copy of Hot Rod Year Book 13 they built a 4 speed T using the Chevy dual master cylinder under the floor.I have the complete plans but no way to scan them right now.It's a very clean set up that doesn't take up much room

 

[RPM]

RPM,

A turbo 400....had a long shaft one in my pontiac after I tore up the 2 speed. It did hold up with my driving habits back then.
Do you have to downshift manually? Say....when stopping at a light?
I know the clutch pull would be harder than my bike. I guess it's not even a comparison. Just something I wanted to throw out there.
I am beginning to think that Don is right about the safety of such an idea.
Especially if my better half drives it or one of my kids drives it.

I think I'll stick with the automatic. I'll just check into getting it built to some degree.

Thanks for the input.

PaulR

I works like a regular auto trans in that there is no clutch. The pattern is reversed so that 1st gear is where drive used to be and drive is where 1st used to be. But when driving you have to shift the gears just like a stick car but no clutch. I use a ratchet shifter, so start out in 1st rev it up pull the shifter back into second rev some more then pull again and you are in 3rd or drive. When you come to a light or stop 2 clicks forward is back to 1st and start all over again. If you slow way down and just make a turn 1 click forward puts it in second gear.

The valve body is from TCI

 

[fluidfloyd]

Pual R,

You are a man of my thinking. My next car will have a clutch in it. Probably a 5 speed from a Chevy S-10. In the mid sixties I had a roadster/bucket with a Chevy 3 speed. The body was formed from lite guage steel and very narrow. Not enough room for both a clutch and brake petal so I put a long handled hand brake on the left side. I drove that thing all over North Alabama and West Tennessee till the Army sent me back north. Really a blast although it could get exciting in panic stops on two lane highways with hilly curves. Not something I really would recommend to anyone I liked. But then ofcourse I did ride a Harley rigid frame with a true clutch petal, 3" shifter right on the side of the trans top and no front brake. Running an open primary chain was always good for a few shinned knuckle tops. Man those were the days. Put a clutch in it, you'll figure it out.

George

 

[PaulR]

I'll have to think on this for a while. Probably mock up a couple of different ways that might work. If I don't put the 4 speed in this one. I'll put it in the next one. Sssshhhhhh don't tell the wife... lol. going to get my engine tomorrow. Have a Happy New Year!!!


PaulR

 

[der Spieler]

I think a hydraulic throwout bearing is the way to go in a T-bucket with a manual transmission. The master cylinder is a lot smaller than a brake master cylinder with so it will fit to the chassis fairly easily. There will be no mechanical linkage to mess with or find room for. The only problem might be how to make room for the clutch pedal and that's been solved by a lot of people in their rides so it's nor insurmountable. The link Bill Pedersen links to in his post above looks like the ticket. There should be room under the dash of a T body for it to fit and the steering column can fit between the pedals

 

[PeteT]

I'm fitting a Tremec 5 speed in my new T. I've got a Quicktime bellhousing which should give more room for the pedals, still going to be tight though:lol:
Not got as far as working out the pedal arrangement yet.

 

[oldtman]

Have you ever driven an old john deere tractor? some of them had a hand lever clutch. You had a long throw to activate it. some cars in the 40's had vacuum clutch,,,like a power brake booster. not good for speed shifts.