454?

[Slo2]

Ok, So I desided to get off of my butt and put my feelers on for a well priced BB 454. I dont have a bucket yet, But I can always get one once the motor is done. I want to know what you all think. Im trying to get a chevy BB 454. I would like to have it done .40 over with a copression ratio of 7.5:1-8:1. I would like the compression at that so I can run a descent boost on pump gas with a Weiand 6/71 Blower. I would also like to have the possibility of maybe a 200shot. The NOS is not set in stone, But it would be nice to have the option. I would most likely use a holley cam with a lift of .555/.571 to give it that old Hot Rod rough idle. Also the 7.5:1 will allow for 10lbs of boost, as the 8:1 will allow for 6 lbs of boost on pump gas per Weiand specs. The carb set up will be dual 750s. Heads From what I hear are fine at stock with a valve Job... Please correct me if this set up sounds wrong, or if there is a better set up that would work better. It will be a heavily used street car that sees shows, and the strip only every so often. Also, Will I need a windage tray . I am probably going to go with a Milodon, or morosso over sized oil pan...I can use all the advice I can get, since I have not build my own motor since the 80s. And I have never built my own blower set up...

Thank you all for the help, and please excuse the type Os. Im just very excited.
Mike

 

[engine24355]

Welcome to the forum Mike! My advice is to build what you want and make sure you are satisfied with it since you will spend the most time with your car. On the other hand, a 454 is A BUNCH of motor for these little light cars especially with a blower and NOS set up (JMO). I do have a buddy that is trying to sell a complete 454 out of a mid 80's GMC truck with a 700 tranny for 1400.00 for everything including some new parts. The engine will need to be rebuilt (not sure on milage), but it is a complete package so you can use what you want and replace the other stuff. Anyway, keep us posted on the build and let me know if you are interested in the 454.

Thanks!

 

[RPM]

I have a blown SBC and the compression is 8.2 it will make about 12 lbs of boost and it runs on pump gas. With a blown T Bucket you ain't gonna stay on the loud pedal very long to worry about detonation very much. I have the Weiand 6-71 on my 350. On a 454 would you not want a 8-71/

 

[Lee_in_KC]

On a 454 would you not want a 8-71?

Yep, you should definitely go with an 8-71. You're going to have to spin a 6-71 at 15% over to get 6# of boost on a 454, whereas with an 8-71 you can spin it 10% under for the same boost. The reason that's important is the higher the RPM of the blower, the more heat it adds to the charge. The hotter the air in the charge, the greater the risk of detonation. Detonation is the mortal enemy of blower motors.

NOS is overkill in my opinion (actually, a blown 454 is overkill, but that's the beauty of hot-rodding... build what you want). As RPM sez, with these light little cars, (1800-2000 pounds max), even with a blown small block as Ron and I have, you'll never be able to get more than a few hundred horses to the ground and you'll never be able to keep your foot in it for more than a few seconds.

I don't know how old you are, Slo, but if you are familiar with the gas and fuel altereds of the 60s and early 70s, those things fishtailed all the way down the track. If you put wheelie bars on them, they crow-hopped down the track (anyone got a pic of Nanook in the air handy?).

 

[Slo2]

RPM, since you know more than I about parts and such for this car, Im gonna say you are right about the 8/71. Im just going by the specs in the Weiand Catolog as for bb cams, and blower specs. I know they say either are good, But they do mention that the 8/71 is recommended for purely track use. But I myseld was wondering of it would work well sice im looking at a bigger engine. I deffinate ly appreciate your correction to what ivew posted, and I thank you for carine enough to let me know about it. As I said, In the past few days that ive been here, Ive already looked at your line of products, and you would know better than I .

 

[Lee_in_KC]

Here ya go...

 

[Slo2]

Lee, As I dsaid to RPM, Thank you for the correction. and for caring enoug to post about it. I am glad this forum is so willing to help. This engine is not set in stone. I have never worked with a 454 before and thought it would be fun. If you think a 350 with a 6/71 would be a better app, I would considder that also....

 

[Lee_in_KC]

What happened to my photo link? It was there when I first posted it. It's not a copyrighted site.

Edit: Never mind, I messed up.

 

[Screaming Metal]

Hey SLO2, welcome......as LeeinKC said.....run a 8-71 with the 454 if you can find one. A 6-71 will do fine, but you'll actually be loosing a little on the street with the 6 series.
As you were told.....you can make boost down low as you were told with the 8-71......start gettingyour boost as early as 2800 to 3000.rpm. Nowthat big thing is gonna eat some horses up low.... but by the time that fat motor gets a sniff of boost you be almost doubling your torque.....not to metion probably well over 500 horses too:lol:.

Nitrious with a blower is very dangerous......I deal with stuff like that for a living. Regular 1/4 mile blower explosions I've seen while I myself standing in the staging area....8 in a lot of years.
1/4 mile cars with blowers.....running nitrious.....explosions.......13 in the past 4 years alone........1 blower never was found!!!!!! Front drive pulley and rear endplate was the only survivors......

 

[Slo2]

I hate looking like Im indesisive, But I really love the look of a BB on a T like in Hollywood knights. But from what you all are saying, I realistically might have to go 350-383 and make some real streetable power with that. Ive never driven a bucket, But im guessing a 350 with 500-600hp would be sufficient. I had a 65 gto with a bit over 500hp, But that beast was heavy. Like I said, Im here to learn. And if you good people who know Ts better than I suggest a different set up, who am I to argue. And not to sound ignorant, Ive always wanted a blown car. I have a turbo car now, And I constantly argue with friends about how much betters blowers look, sound, and from what I see, Perform. So a blown set up is a given. Thank you all so much for all the insite and help you have been already...Looks like I have a little more studying to do.


[quote name='Screamin' Metal']but by the time that fat motor gets a sniff of boost you be almost doubling your torque.....not to metion probably well over 500 horses too:lol:.
[/quote]

Thats an aweful lot o torque for a car that light on the streets I guess. Im going to have to go back to the drawing boards. Maybe my Big Block days havent come yet...


Mike.

 

[FastEddie59]

Hello Slo2, I thought I would add my 2 cents worth to this discussion. The car I have had a stroked 454 in it at one time, my avatar picture is with this motor in it. It now has a 331" SBC built to make high-end horsepower more so than torque. From what the previous owner told me the car was on the verge of undrivable with it in it. It made around 850 hp with over 650 foot pounds of torque, keep in mind it was a 489" motor, 454 with an extra 1/4" of stroke bored .030 over, with a $5K set of heads, a big roller cam, and a ported intake with a 1200cfm carb, and just shy of 11 to 1 C.R., that should be in the ball park of what an 8-71 blown 454 could make with the right combination. It also bent the rear radius rods and had to have a heavier set built, and a power glide with a trans brake. He told me that it would spin from the time you nailed it till you let off, and was hard to control because of the front end having very little weight on it, it basically had DOT passable slicks. He took it top the track and tried everything he could think of and said it was still spinning with the speedo indicating 170 mph. He then listened to a old timer with a lot of experience with these type cars and put the 331 in it and with the lower weight of the aluminum headed SB in it, it drives night and day different, it will almost hook in the street tires and will run a low 10 second 1/4 mile on street tires through the mufflers. I too have thought about a BBC in it again with a blower and from what I have found through research if going this way here are several things that would make a more street friendly and drivable ride. First a longer than most wheelbase would make it easier to control, I was thinking 125" like an altered race car, a 4 link rear suspension like RPM has on his car, he can easily make you one, a dropped axle front with a lot of drop to get it as low as possible to the ground so it is not as prone to be top heavy, because this thing will gain a lot speed quick, and 4 wheel disc to haul it down. On the motor use a cam that doesn't have a lot of overlap, it will bleed off a lot of boost and dump a large amount of raw gas into the exhaust, may want to consider a hyd. roller because the government has made the motor oil manufacturers take zinc out of the oil and a regular flat tappet cam won't last unless you buy the additive and put it back in it, and they have kept this very quiet, I know of at least 10 guys that have lost a cam recently and didn't know this had taken place. I would recommend aluminum heads because the more weight you can keep off the front end the better, and it gives you the option of using a flattop piston for better flame travel and efficiency, and the port and valve size would allow you to pack a lot more in it and make more power. I would go with an 8-71 for the same reasons the others have pointed out and use a very stout ignition such as an MSD that is adjustable to have a better ignition curve to work with the boost and avoid detonation, they make one specifically for blown motors. This will make so much torque that you can use a very tall rear gear and with the kind of numbers this combination will make use a TH400 with a medium stall converter, 2800 to 3000 should work good and idle in gear well with a fairly big cam, a overdrive trans will never last if you're bad to mash on it. A motor like this could make as much as 1000 hp with the right combo and tuning on pump gas, and since NOS basically raises the C.R. it would be a good recipe for a hand grenade, the blower is more than capable of giving you the performance you're looking for, although it will need two Dominators to supply the fuel and air it will be able to pass., so a good fuel system will be a must, say a BG400 with a loop type fuel line set up. From a drivability standpoint I don't know with the recent technology that a small block 427 or 434 with big aluminum heads and an 8-71 wouldn't handle better and may even be faster giving the weight difference, and should be easier to hook. Okay, sorry for the lengthy response, that is probably 22 cents worth, but I hope this may help, I have a 496" BBC downstairs that is going in my pro street 75 C10 that is done set up to run a blower down the road if I decide to, just have to change the heads and put an 8-71 on it, already used a cam that will work well with NOS with the current heads, I have a 250 shot system on it, or with a blower if I take some compression out of it, if you look the blower and NOS cams are the same profiles because they do basically the same thing just by different routes. Drop me a line if I can be of help, Eddie

 

[Slo2]

Eddie, Thank you for chiming in . For you , as well as the others, I appreciate the well thought out responce. I really thought that a BB would be the top dog motor. But As you say, I want top drive her, Not run through rear tires like I have stock in 18inch rubber. I am well versed in the N/A 350s, and am comfortable with that size motor. I really think I would fair much better if I looked back in that direction. The SB is an old friend and has never let me down...

Mike

 

[Wild Mango]

Hey Slo2, just you go ahead and do it. The world is waiting for you to hit the street in an 8.71 puffed 454.
Never mind practicalities, if we worried about them, none of us would be here. We build our own cars so as we get what we want.
You want a blown 454, then that is your destiny, pilgrim.

Just be careful with it, stuff happens plenty fast enough with a carburetted 350 let alone almost twice the power and torque.

 

[RPM]

Hey we are not trying to talk you out of it at all. A blown 454 in a bucket will be very cool. Your right foot controls the power.

 

[blownt]

nothing wrong with a blown big block. Its overkill in a T bucket but as long as you know what you are doing and don't get in over your head its OK. Just make sure your fronts tires are pointed straight when ya nail it. You will learn pretty quick what to do and not do. I'd say in a bucket it would not matter whether you have a 6-71 or 8-71. Whereas in a GTO or Chevelle you would want an 8-71. The blower going into my 460 jetboat is an 8-71. It also depends on what you got for a torque converter, cam, rear gear, etc..... as to what it will do.

 

[Slo2]

Hey we are not trying to talk you out of it at all. A blown 454 in a bucket will be very cool. Your right foot controls the power.

O completely understand. You and all the others have all made valid points that I didnt consider. no1 point being, You cant have fun in a car that doesnt move because all you do is spin. The idea of a BB is appealing no doubt. But maybe its better off in a 3000lb car and not a 1600lb one. This is not to say I wont wanna throw a bb in the rail once I get used to it. But I dont wanna build this thing and wreck it . Im 40 now, and ive wanted one since I was about 16. It would kill me to get one, just to see it destroyed cause I mashed the loud and curbed the ride. Id only have myself to blame for not listening to those that have the knowlege that Im here to gain. Some day, Ill be one of you, and Ill be able to talk sense to a newb about the ride that I love as much as you do. I know you all have an extreme passion for this car, and care so much, or you wouldnt be trying to stear a newb like me in the right dirrection. Thank you for the replies

Mike

 

[Hot Rod Todd]

Mike, a 671 on a 454 in a bucket is way easy to drive on the street. I did over 5000 miles with mine over the past few years (updating to a blown 540 at the moment).

A big blower motor with say 550-600hp is nicer to drive on the street than a seriously modified normally aspirated engine with the same power. Theres the stuff called low end torque that puts a smile on your face which is hard to wipe off.

Heres what we did. I got a street bucket less motor & box that had previously run a 650 hp normally aspirated 454. We got a $600 454 rebuilder & got a kit from Summit Racing and got a set of TRW blower pistons and contacted Comp Cams for a hydraulic cam.

My engine was a 2 bolt mains cast crank jobby and I had NO issues with the bottom end. Funny that! With 119cc heads I had 7.63:1 compression and the engine dyno'd at 627hp.

And I ran zoomies till the laws got changed and I needed to quieten it down a bit.

On the street it was great, and very well mannered. On the strip, I leave at idle, and then floor it once we are going straight. Best time is 10.2@132mph

My car is very heavy, its almost 2500lbs before I get into it, and I have no idea how you guys get your cars down to 1800lbs.

All the best with your project. Just remember
if some is good,
then more is better,
and too much is just about enough.

Cheers
Todd

 

[Ted Brown]

If you find a good chassis man, that can build you a chassis that would keep the tires on the ground (at both ends) and stuck the pavement, and you take a driving course to be able to drive a really quick car on the track, then maybe you may want a big block like you are talking about.. But, staying in one piece (both you and your car) is the main consideration, I would build a fun safe cruising T Bucket, drive it and after a year of no crashes, them MAYBE something bigger, Just from Me to You...

 

[FastEddie59]

Hello again Slo2, I wasn't trying to talk you out of your vision, just some food for thought. If I build one from scratch it will have a BBC with a bolwer on top, it would just take a chassis designed for it, my current car would not function as good as it could versus one that you knew that was what you were going to do from the beginning, which is where you have the option since you aren't starting with an already built car. Check out this auction number on E Bay, 290327663884, and that is just about what you described engine wise, if you can hook it this would produce an 8 second 1/4 mile car that will run on pump gas! Like you I loved the bucket in Hollywood Knights. Go for it because if my health will permit I will have one like this before it's over with, Eddie

 

[Slo2]

First of all, Happy 4th of July everyone. Next order of business. Eddie, and all the others. I dont feel you are talking me out of anything. I asked for your opinions. For the guys that say do the BB, Some day I will, but since I am new to the T thing, and have never driven or riden in one. I think im going to reroute my thinking and just work my way up to the BB. YES, I have never been in a Bucket, But just looking at them, and taking a ride in a buddys old 350 blown C-Cab( I know, same thing)years ago and rememberting how cool that ride was, and how great it felt. I just have to have one, and now that Im gettin to be an old man, Nows the time to start building