700R4 friendly carb quest

[Zandoz]

I've decided to de-electronics the little GM 60V6 that I am going to use for my build. Towards that end, I've gotten an Edelbrock Torker II manifold, and an old school Mallory dual point distributor. The missing link is the carburetor. More specifically, something around 275-390 cfm, 2 or 4 bbl, 700R4 friendly, and affordable.

My original plan was to use the 287 cfm version of the Motorcraft 2100/2150 2bbl....simple, reliable, and not sensitive to running at extreme angles (see my 700R4 positioning thread). Unfortunately, so far I've found no way to connect the 700R4's TV cable to one. A several hour search uncovered one off-hand mention of having accomplished the connection successfully.

The easy route would be the Edelbrock recommended 390 cfm Holley 8007, but they are price even for pretty grundgy looking used ones. Also, at least in my mind, they are way overkill for my engine. According to my cfm calculator, 275 cfm is the maximum for this engine.

Any insight would be greatly appreciated

 

[Keeper]

You can find a used 8007 for around $175, of course you will need to throw a kit at it for another $25. I just rebuilt a couple I picked up from the HAMB, I am pretty sure he still has some.

Not going to get much smaller, and the 4160 700r4 adapter bolts right up to it. 2bbl's cost more then the 390's!

You can make your own 700r4 adapter for anything as long as you have what is required to do it. I have a link around somewhere that shows you how to make sure the measurements are correct.

 

[Zandoz]

At least from what I've found, you got a pretty good deal. I've yet to find a rebuilt 8007 for under about $300...but I have found the 7448s for around $150. I wish I could find someone who could make a correct adapter for the Motorcraft 2100/2150...I don't trust myself making one when I have zero prior experience with dealing with TV cables and their critical need to be correct.

 

[Keeper]

All I can find is the measurements.

http://www.cpttransmission.com/Files/tec2.jpg

Yeah I did get a pretty good deal. I looked but its not listed if he has any more 390's. Some 2v's but no 390's.

 

[HeloTech]

I'm fairly sure if you get a quadra-jet from a early to mid 80's car it should work good for you, the quad's were good in the fact that the CFM is variable (load dependent) depending on the motor's needs. just make sure it's NOT the electronic quadra-jet.

 

[Zandoz]

I'm fairly sure if you get a quadra-jet from a early to mid 80's car it should work good for you, the quad's were good in the fact that the CFM is variable (load dependent) depending on the motor's needs. just make sure it's NOT the electronic quadra-jet.

I've always been under the impression that the Quadrajets were complex, and finicky to get and keep running right. I'm looking for simple...to the point of going with a manual choke set up.

 

[choppedtop]

And, not to leave out one other important item. Make sure you have the correct pull leverage on the TV cable. This is one thing that if not correct can ruin a good time in a hurry.
Lee

 

[Zandoz]

And, not to leave out one other important item. Make sure you have the correct pull leverage on the TV cable. This is one thing that if not correct can ruin a good time in a hurry.
Lee

I'm not going to try to wing that aspect myself...I'll be sticking to something off the shelf for adapting the TV cable to the carb. Not being able to find an off the shelf solution is the only reason I'm looking for something other than the Autolite 2100/2150s. Right now I'm looking into a small base Rochester 2G. I'm waiting for a response from Bow Tie Overdrives on the possibility of their TV Made EZ kit for 3x2 2G setetups working on a single carb set up.

 

[Screaming Metal]

You don't need to try and re-invent the wheel here. Get a carb that is MADE as a replacement, look on the directions and see how the cable hooks up. Note that hole on the bellcrank.
Now, measure from the CL of the throttleshaft to the CL of the attachment hole. Pay attention to the hole size....
Any Autoparts store that you frequent will let you look at one of their carbs, or go to the Bone yard. but get that CL to CL measurement though.

Whichever carb you decide to run, on the bellcrank, measure from the CL of the throttleshaft and see if any holes line up. If theres metal there for to drill, drill a hole and att. point for the cable. You might be able to use a clevis to attach with, if not, fab yourself up a attach rod using a old throttle rod and a couple of small cable clamps. or a universal cable end works well also.
Adjust your static cable adjustment as per a Chiltons Book or a Motor Repair Manual. Test drive and adjust as necessary. Done Deal. Should not take you more than a afternoon after you have that CL measurement.
Attaching that cable is not rocket science....and will work for any carb you wanna run....

If your bellcrank is too small....you'll notice theres no shortage of attachment holes on that bellcrank. Attach a small piece of metal to your bellcrank and drill a hole to the CL dimensions....then attach your cable....

 

[Zandoz]

You don't need to try and re-invent the wheel here. Get a carb that is MADE as a replacement, look on the directions and see how the cable hooks up. Note that hole on the bellcrank.
Now, measure from the CL of the throttleshaft to the CL of the attachment hole. Pay attention to the hole size....
Any Autoparts store that you frequent will let you look at one of their carbs, or go to the Bone yard. but get that CL to CL measurement though.

Whichever carb you decide to run, on the bellcrank, measure from the CL of the throttleshaft and see if any holes line up. If theres metal there for to drill, drill a hole and att. point for the cable. You might be able to use a clevis to attach with, if not, fab yourself up a attach rod using a old throttle rod and a couple of small cable clamps. or a universal cable end works well also.
Adjust your static cable adjustment as per a Chiltons Book or a Motor Repair Manual. Test drive and adjust as necessary. Done Deal. Should not take you more than a afternoon after you have that CL measurement.
Attaching that cable is not rocket science....and will work for any carb you wanna run....

If your bellcrank is too small....you'll notice theres no shortage of attachment holes on that bellcrank. Attach a small piece of metal to your bellcrank and drill a hole to the CL dimensions....then attach your cable....

The word from Bow Tie Overdrives is that they do have a TV Made EZ kit for single carb 2G setetups. Unless I decide to invest in what is necessary to run my motor on the stand, I have quite a while before I will need the carb. Meanwhile, I'm going to keep an eye out for a c heap rebuilt Holley 8007. If I don't find one for a good price I'll go with a small base 2G with the BTO kit.

 

[Screaming Metal]

Yes, A rochester 2g will be good for the V6 or the old Holley 390 2bbl. performance or racing carb. Really, the kickdown rod just wants to know throttle opening to to speed for fluid pressure control and/or for passing gear engagement. That kickdown doesn't give a flying flip if its connected to a single, a 2bb., a 3bbl., or a 4bbl....
The Old Holley Racing 500cfm 2bbl's, I've had really good luck with if you wanted performance and frisky driving with the V6. On the street, cruising, the 390 would be good. The Rochchester 2g's are about 275 to 295 cfm, while they will give the V6 good clean throttle response and decent power, when frisky on the street, just a tad too little. BUT....will give you great fuel milage.

I built a guy a 2x3 2g setup for his V6 rod. it was a Alum. 2G intake that I had milled to openings into on the bridgport and welded 2-2g mounting flanges in place. Ran good once over 6700 rpms. Below 4500, it would fall on its face. He decided to to make the motor less radical, so I took out the competition cam, Put in Lower compression pistons, put a RV grind in it and put the block off plates under the front and rear 2g's after I took out their throttle blades. Running off the center 2g, he got about 26 MPG's....

 

[Zandoz]

Yes, A rochester 2g will be good for the V6 or the old Holley 390 2bbl. performance or racing carb. Really, the kickdown rod just wants to know throttle opening to to speed for fluid pressure control and/or for passing gear engagement. That kickdown doesn't give a flying flip if its connected to a single, a 2bb., a 3bbl., or a 4bbl....
The Old Holley Racing 500cfm 2bbl's, I've had really good luck with if you wanted performance and frisky driving with the V6. On the street, cruising, the 390 would be good. The Rochchester 2g's are about 275 to 295 cfm, while they will give the V6 good clean throttle response and decent power, when frisky on the street, just a tad too little. BUT....will give you great fuel milage.

I built a guy a 2x3 2g setup for his V6 rod. it was a Alum. 2G intake that I had milled to openings into on the bridgport and welded 2-2g mounting flanges in place. Ran good once over 6700 rpms. Below 4500, it would fall on its face. He decided to to make the motor less radical, so I took out the competition cam, Put in Lower compression pistons, put a RV grind in it and put the block off plates under the front and rear 2g's after I took out their throttle blades. Running off the center 2g, he got about 26 MPG's....

What V6 was it that would handle 3 2Gs without it being overkill? For the little 2.8 V6 I have, Summit's CFM calculator recommends 270-something CFM...so a small base 2G should be near perfect. If it were not out of budget and no TV kits available as far as I know, I'd love to do a pair of 97s or 94s

 

[Screaming Metal]

What V6 was it that would handle 3 2Gs without it being overkill? For the little 2.8 V6 I have, Summit's CFM calculator recommends 270-something CFM...so a small base 2G should be near perfect. If it were not out of budget and no TV kits available as far as I know, I'd love to do a pair of 97s or 94s

Oh, he was one of those 'All Out' guys, had to have all the big tube headers, the big rollercam, the radical intake....he drives racecars....I tried to talk him out of it. After dealing with it being a severe headache on the street for a year, he decided to tame it down.
Race car drivers are like that sometimes....

If you like 2x2's, build a twin log intake, make it look nostalgic....

 

[Zandoz]

Oh, he was one of those 'All Out' guys, had to have all the big tube headers, the big rollercam, the radical intake....he drives racecars....I tried to talk him out of it. After dealing with it being a severe headache on the street for a year, he decided to tame it down.
Race car drivers are like that sometimes....

If you like 2x2's, build a twin log intake, make it look nostalgic....

No need for manifold fabrication, there are several adapters to do the trick. What's holding me back from that route is the cost of the carbs and the lack of TV kits. It's looking like it all may be academic....the whole project is in serious jeapordy

 

[Screaming Metal]

No need for manifold fabrication, there are several adapters to do the trick. What's holding me back from that route is the cost of the carbs and the lack of TV kits. It's looking like it all may be academic....the whole project is in serious jeapordy

Well, I hope everything works out for you. If its financial, just collect parts. For me, I have access to alot of diff. stuff....I knew I was gonna be building buckets, so I started pick up this here and that there....I had a pretty good selection of motors I'd picked up over the years, same with rims and tires. I just tossed them in my junk room, thats what I call it.
Hope things work out for you, Keep the Faith, maybe the Big Man Upstairs might send something your way.....

 

[Zandoz]

Well, I hope everything works out for you. If its financial, just collect parts. For me, I have access to alot of diff. stuff....I knew I was gonna be building buckets, so I started pick up this here and that there....I had a pretty good selection of motors I'd picked up over the years, same with rims and tires. I just tossed them in my junk room, thats what I call it.
Hope things work out for you, Keep the Faith, maybe the Big Man Upstairs might send something your way.....

Thanks for the encouragement. Collecting is what I've been doing for the last 2 years...and I've managed to accumulate a lot more than I expected. The problem is the possibility of building the vehicle I've envisioned is becoming less and less likely to be possible on more than one front. I'm at the point of having to make the big decision. <shrug>

 

[Screaming Metal]

Thanks for the encouragement. Collecting is what I've been doing for the last 2 years...and I've managed to accumulate a lot more than I expected. The problem is the possibility of building the vehicle I've envisioned is becoming less and less likely to be possible on more than one front. I'm at the point of having to make the big decision. <shrug>

Well, hope things come thru for you. Remember, if its the V6 costs, a V8 is alot cheaper to build. I can go anywhere in this country and pick up a rebuilable chevy longblock from a salvage yard for about $150, open her up and refresh her for about another $150, cheap used intake flea market special-$50, dressup kit....,etc, etc.
Hope that things work out, we'll be rooting for Ya! Swap meets are a good place to pickup used frontends and frames. Even bodys.... You can still build a cheap Bucket, just gotta look around for the pieces parts. All ya gotta do to install whatever motor you want is motormounts and a trans mount, and your driveshaft....

 

[Zandoz]

Well, hope things come thru for you. Remember, if its the V6 costs, a V8 is alot cheaper to build. I can go anywhere in this country and pick up a rebuilable chevy longblock from a salvage yard for about $150, open her up and refresh her for about another $150, cheap used intake flea market special-$50, dressup kit....,etc, etc.
Hope that things work out, we'll be rooting for Ya! Swap meets are a good place to pickup used frontends and frames. Even bodys.... You can still build a cheap Bucket, just gotta look around for the pieces parts. All ya gotta do to install whatever motor you want is motormounts and a trans mount, and your driveshaft....

Actually, the V6 has not been an issue at all. The only remaining issue related to the V6 will be the headers. They will likely have to be custom built, but I do already have a line on reasonably priced flanges. So far, with patience, I've not found the V6 to be any more expensive than a V8. I've got under $500 in the engine, transmission, Edelbrock intake, Mallory ignition, and dress up valve covers. If needed, a rebuild kit is no more expensive than a V8...but just in case I've got lines on 2 low mileage replacement engines with warranties for under $300 each.

The two issues are my health and the frame. I just had another week hospital stay...and I'm not recovering to previous capabilities after the last couple stays. The frame will have to be custom built, which is beyond my abilities, and is looking to be beyond my financial ability.

 

[Screaming Metal]

A stock frame is a pretty good starting point, and usually can be modified accordingly. We will have you in our thoughts....
We have a great bunch of Chassis guys here, with FluidFloyd, MeanGreen, GAB, and the others, so you might want to do a thread on a cost effective yet inexpensive way of doing your chassis....won't hurt to ask.
Besides, that is what we're here for....to help out....

 

[T-Test]

Actually, the V6 has not been an issue at all. The only remaining issue related to the V6 will be the headers. They will likely have to be custom built, but I do already have a line on reasonably priced flanges. So far, with patience, I've not found the V6 to be any more expensive than a V8. I've got under $500 in the engine, transmission, Edelbrock intake, Mallory ignition, and dress up valve covers. If needed, a rebuild kit is no more expensive than a V8...but just in case I've got lines on 2 low mileage replacement engines with warranties for under $300 each.

The two issues are my health and the frame. I just had another week hospital stay...and I'm not recovering to previous capabilities after the last couple stays. The frame will have to be custom built, which is beyond my abilities, and is looking to be beyond my financial ability.

Call Ron at RPM. He can build you a frame a lot cheaper than anyone locally will.