der Spieler
Member
Say goodnight, Gracie!
And so it ends
- Thread starter der Spieler
- Start date
- Status
Francis Blake
Active Member
Steve was on line a couple hours ago maybe reading. Hope he comes back it wont be the same without him :sad:
one finger john
Active Member
Steve, why so cryptic? We have never communicated, but your observations are always spot on and it would be a shame if you are truly leaving this site. What's the deal?
Curious, John
Curious, John
der Spieler
Member
Okay Rick. You asked for it.
My reasons for leaving, or should I say pulling back, are myriad. I’ll begin here. First there is the sometimes arrogant and frequently dismissive attitude of some of the membership. Yes, Ted Brown, I’m talking about you. But you aren’t the only one. Several of the membership seems to feel that they are the experts and the opinions of others are of no consequence. You might be experts but you aren’t the experts. You can’t intimidate me but I’m 62 years old and there isn’t too much that I haven’t seen or dealt with in my life that does intimidate me anymore. But to the new people your replies can be very off-putting and can keep them from asking the important questions when they are starting their build. The only stupid question is the one not asked and shame on you if those questions aren’t asked because someone was afraid of your response. Edit your posts before you send them.
The flippant response when Rick said “Bye-Bye” a few weeks ago was uncalled for. His posting wasn’t taken seriously because of his digitally dyslexic reference to the NTBS when he meant NTBA. If the offender had read his post he would have seen that Rick had serious issues with the forum. But that’s another symptom of the problems within the forum. The people who post here do so thinking that what they have to say is of some relevance or importance and it is very disconcerting when we are dismissed or ignored.
Mike. This is your forum. You created it and invited us all to join in but when you asked for donations to keep it running you became obligated to us (the donors). Your contributor rankings became a badge of honor to some of us. You’ve taken the significance of that away from us because life got in your way. That’s a shame. I think we deserve better. And speaking of contributions, an acknowledgement of our donations would be nice. I’m not looking for accolades or praise. Just a simple acknowledgement that you received the donation so that we know that PayPal got it right. I made a $25 donation last Wednesday. I guess I just have to assume that you received it.
I’m going to flog the contributions horse one more time and if any of you have read some of my posts in the past few months you will know that this is a very sore subject with me. When Mike announced at the first of the year that he was going to sell the forum a few us (very few of us) rallied to save the forum. Mike posted a list of the donors and there were very few of the over 1300 members of this forum who had donated. I don’t remember the exact number now but it was less than fifty. I don’t buy the “the economy’s bad” excuse for not donating. I joined the forum in June of 2008 but I have been unemployed since August of 2007 and, at times, it has been a struggle but I was able to make donations on three occasions. And I bought a T-shirt. The forum was that important to me. When I read the posts and I don’t see a “Contributor” icon by the poster’s name I become a little disgusted. Especially when I see that the poster has been a long-time member and has made hundreds of postings. Is it a welfare mentality that prompts you to be freeloaders? In an effort to help save the forum some of our membership started auctioning off items of real value to raise money. Ron Pope, Ron Young and others gave where they didn’t have to because they saw the importance of this forum to the T-bucket community. If they can give it shouldn’t hurt any of you to come up with $5 or $10 for a donation. The items that have come up for auction are a lot more valuable than that.
I could go on but I think I’ve said enough. I will continue to visit the forum and view the posts but I won’t be contributing any more. in words or monetarily. I’m tired of being ignored.
My reasons for leaving, or should I say pulling back, are myriad. I’ll begin here. First there is the sometimes arrogant and frequently dismissive attitude of some of the membership. Yes, Ted Brown, I’m talking about you. But you aren’t the only one. Several of the membership seems to feel that they are the experts and the opinions of others are of no consequence. You might be experts but you aren’t the experts. You can’t intimidate me but I’m 62 years old and there isn’t too much that I haven’t seen or dealt with in my life that does intimidate me anymore. But to the new people your replies can be very off-putting and can keep them from asking the important questions when they are starting their build. The only stupid question is the one not asked and shame on you if those questions aren’t asked because someone was afraid of your response. Edit your posts before you send them.
The flippant response when Rick said “Bye-Bye” a few weeks ago was uncalled for. His posting wasn’t taken seriously because of his digitally dyslexic reference to the NTBS when he meant NTBA. If the offender had read his post he would have seen that Rick had serious issues with the forum. But that’s another symptom of the problems within the forum. The people who post here do so thinking that what they have to say is of some relevance or importance and it is very disconcerting when we are dismissed or ignored.
Mike. This is your forum. You created it and invited us all to join in but when you asked for donations to keep it running you became obligated to us (the donors). Your contributor rankings became a badge of honor to some of us. You’ve taken the significance of that away from us because life got in your way. That’s a shame. I think we deserve better. And speaking of contributions, an acknowledgement of our donations would be nice. I’m not looking for accolades or praise. Just a simple acknowledgement that you received the donation so that we know that PayPal got it right. I made a $25 donation last Wednesday. I guess I just have to assume that you received it.
I’m going to flog the contributions horse one more time and if any of you have read some of my posts in the past few months you will know that this is a very sore subject with me. When Mike announced at the first of the year that he was going to sell the forum a few us (very few of us) rallied to save the forum. Mike posted a list of the donors and there were very few of the over 1300 members of this forum who had donated. I don’t remember the exact number now but it was less than fifty. I don’t buy the “the economy’s bad” excuse for not donating. I joined the forum in June of 2008 but I have been unemployed since August of 2007 and, at times, it has been a struggle but I was able to make donations on three occasions. And I bought a T-shirt. The forum was that important to me. When I read the posts and I don’t see a “Contributor” icon by the poster’s name I become a little disgusted. Especially when I see that the poster has been a long-time member and has made hundreds of postings. Is it a welfare mentality that prompts you to be freeloaders? In an effort to help save the forum some of our membership started auctioning off items of real value to raise money. Ron Pope, Ron Young and others gave where they didn’t have to because they saw the importance of this forum to the T-bucket community. If they can give it shouldn’t hurt any of you to come up with $5 or $10 for a donation. The items that have come up for auction are a lot more valuable than that.
I could go on but I think I’ve said enough. I will continue to visit the forum and view the posts but I won’t be contributing any more. in words or monetarily. I’m tired of being ignored.
Mike
Well-Known Member
I've always said the larger the crowd in a room, the better the possibility of discord. It's a fact of life and none of us can change it or escape it. Different people have different thoughts and ideas. We would truly be a boring lot if we were all robots and thought the same things and reacted the same ways. Do I see occasions when someone's fur might be rubbed the wrong way around here? Of course I do. But how is that different from any other situation in life when a large group of people join together?
So, we all walk the fine line and try to be as tolerant as we can be of one another. For some people, it works and for others it does not.
Steve, I sincerely apologize for not acknowledging your donation. I have just discovered a page that I see normally is one that is not displayed to anyone other than forum admins. It is a record to show the donations that have been made to the forum. Frankly, I was not aware the balance of the forum membership could not view this page. I've not looked into what it will take to allow everyone to see the page yet, but I have attached a screenshot of the page, which does show your donation of $25, made on 3 June 2009.
That being said, if you will please check your account information, you should see a refund of the $25 donation. I have returned that amount to you. As soon as I can get a moment to check my records, I will get the rest of your 2009 donations refunded to you, along with the amount you paid for the t-shirt and the postage. Consider the shirt my personal gift to you. You clearly need the money more than I. And you have my word I will never wave a flag in front of you, to remind you of that gift.
As some of you are aware, I spent a few years as pastor of a United Methodist Church. When I was hired by the church, I made one thing very clear to them - I was being hired to preach and to teach and not to play the part of a fundraiser. I refused to be some sort of a fund-raising clown in a circus sideshow. I had no issues with reminding the congregation that each one of us had obligations to the church, through our presence, our prayers, our service and our gifts. But I would not sit in the corner of the room rattling a tin can, begging alms for the church. And the church treasurer would suffer apoplexy when I would tell the congregation the only obligation they had in their giving was to give what they could cheerfully give.
Note that word 'cheerfully'?
I wasn't going to jump through hoops to get offerings for the church and I'm not going to jump through hoops to get offerings for the forum.
So, as long as we're laying our cards on the table, let's look at everyone's hand.
Fact - I cannot afford to operate the forum out of pocket.
Fact - Without free will donations and advertising income, the forum will disappear.
Fact - I appreciate (as should you all) each and every donation received.
Fact - I don't want anyone making donations they cannot afford.
Fact - I don't want anyone to make donations without a spirit of cheerful giving to the overall good of the forum.
Fact - If anyone is considering a donation to get a badge next to their name or a pat on the back, please keep your wallet in your pocket. You've clearly lost the plot.
The donations to this forum are free will donations. No member is obligated to donate anything. Steve's observation that anyone who has failed to donate is a 'freeloader' is his own opinion and one that is not shared by myself.
This forum was established as a 'hobby' site and I never imagined the forum would ever have more than 250 members. As the site continued to explode, the site began to incur more expense that my 'hobby' budget could afford, so I was faced with the decision of either monetizing the site to support itself, or getting out of Dodge. At that point in time, the site became a business operation. And like any other business, it will flourish so long as it can continue to make 'sales'. If the time comes that 'sales' cannot cover expenses, then the business will be forced to close. It is just that simple.
I've never walked into a brick and mortar business where I was forced to purchase anything and I'll be damned if anyone is going to feel that way here. We've never had a hostage mentality here. And we're not going to start.
I don't hold a gun to anyone's head to force them to visit this Web site. I don't hold a gun to anyone's head to force them to register. I don't hold a gun to anyone's head to force them to read a single post. I don't hold a gun to anyone's head to force them to post anything.
I absolutely do not and will not hold a gun to anyone's head to force them to donate. And nobody else is going to get away with it either.
So, we all walk the fine line and try to be as tolerant as we can be of one another. For some people, it works and for others it does not.
Steve, I sincerely apologize for not acknowledging your donation. I have just discovered a page that I see normally is one that is not displayed to anyone other than forum admins. It is a record to show the donations that have been made to the forum. Frankly, I was not aware the balance of the forum membership could not view this page. I've not looked into what it will take to allow everyone to see the page yet, but I have attached a screenshot of the page, which does show your donation of $25, made on 3 June 2009.
That being said, if you will please check your account information, you should see a refund of the $25 donation. I have returned that amount to you. As soon as I can get a moment to check my records, I will get the rest of your 2009 donations refunded to you, along with the amount you paid for the t-shirt and the postage. Consider the shirt my personal gift to you. You clearly need the money more than I. And you have my word I will never wave a flag in front of you, to remind you of that gift.
As some of you are aware, I spent a few years as pastor of a United Methodist Church. When I was hired by the church, I made one thing very clear to them - I was being hired to preach and to teach and not to play the part of a fundraiser. I refused to be some sort of a fund-raising clown in a circus sideshow. I had no issues with reminding the congregation that each one of us had obligations to the church, through our presence, our prayers, our service and our gifts. But I would not sit in the corner of the room rattling a tin can, begging alms for the church. And the church treasurer would suffer apoplexy when I would tell the congregation the only obligation they had in their giving was to give what they could cheerfully give.
Note that word 'cheerfully'?
I wasn't going to jump through hoops to get offerings for the church and I'm not going to jump through hoops to get offerings for the forum.
So, as long as we're laying our cards on the table, let's look at everyone's hand.
Fact - I cannot afford to operate the forum out of pocket.
Fact - Without free will donations and advertising income, the forum will disappear.
Fact - I appreciate (as should you all) each and every donation received.
Fact - I don't want anyone making donations they cannot afford.
Fact - I don't want anyone to make donations without a spirit of cheerful giving to the overall good of the forum.
Fact - If anyone is considering a donation to get a badge next to their name or a pat on the back, please keep your wallet in your pocket. You've clearly lost the plot.
The donations to this forum are free will donations. No member is obligated to donate anything. Steve's observation that anyone who has failed to donate is a 'freeloader' is his own opinion and one that is not shared by myself.
This forum was established as a 'hobby' site and I never imagined the forum would ever have more than 250 members. As the site continued to explode, the site began to incur more expense that my 'hobby' budget could afford, so I was faced with the decision of either monetizing the site to support itself, or getting out of Dodge. At that point in time, the site became a business operation. And like any other business, it will flourish so long as it can continue to make 'sales'. If the time comes that 'sales' cannot cover expenses, then the business will be forced to close. It is just that simple.
I've never walked into a brick and mortar business where I was forced to purchase anything and I'll be damned if anyone is going to feel that way here. We've never had a hostage mentality here. And we're not going to start.
I don't hold a gun to anyone's head to force them to visit this Web site. I don't hold a gun to anyone's head to force them to register. I don't hold a gun to anyone's head to force them to read a single post. I don't hold a gun to anyone's head to force them to post anything.
I absolutely do not and will not hold a gun to anyone's head to force them to donate. And nobody else is going to get away with it either.
Mike
Well-Known Member
Steve, I checked my PayPal records and found the following transactions -
You made a $10 donation on 5 January 2009.
You made a $15 donation on 7 April 2009.
You made a $25 dollar purchase of a T-Bucket Forums t-shirt on 8 April 2009.
By my math, that amounts to a total of $50.
I have a receipt for PayPal transaction number 9XG764698D263025J in hand, showing the amount of $50 sent to you on this date, 7 June 2009.
If there is any other amount outstanding I may have missed, please flag me up and I will get that amount returned to you. Otherwise, I will consider the matter closed.
If anyone else feels wronged by having donated to the forum, please contact me via Private Message so I can get your funds returned to you. (Actually, if there are enough of you we can simply bankrupt the site and I won't have to worry about dealing with this kind of nonsense any longer.
ray
Additionally, Section C of the forum rules states -
You made a $10 donation on 5 January 2009.
You made a $15 donation on 7 April 2009.
You made a $25 dollar purchase of a T-Bucket Forums t-shirt on 8 April 2009.
By my math, that amounts to a total of $50.
I have a receipt for PayPal transaction number 9XG764698D263025J in hand, showing the amount of $50 sent to you on this date, 7 June 2009.
If there is any other amount outstanding I may have missed, please flag me up and I will get that amount returned to you. Otherwise, I will consider the matter closed.
If anyone else feels wronged by having donated to the forum, please contact me via Private Message so I can get your funds returned to you. (Actually, if there are enough of you we can simply bankrupt the site and I won't have to worry about dealing with this kind of nonsense any longer.
rayAdditionally, Section C of the forum rules states -
Let this serve as warning that if I see anyone suggesting another member might be a 'freeloader' in the future, there will be swift and certain consequences. Enjoy your pass Steve, but don't count on seeing any more.
- Status
Similar threads
