Coolers?
- Thread starter kyle
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Lee_in_KC
Active Member
The main source of heat in our set-ups is the converter. The higher the stall the more heat. I have a 2800-3000 stall converter and was originally running a cooler like Rick's, only I had the shorter single-pass version. I became concerned about heat and installed a tranny temp gauge, and was dismayed to see my temps in the 220 range in city traffic on hot days. TCI says the ideal temp range is 175-225, but I wanted mine towards the lower end of that range, so I installed one of these...
Right now it's installed without the fan because of clearance issues, but so far it's keeping the temps under 200. I would be more comfortable with the fan installed, but I'm going to have to re-engineer the mounting arrangement, which means pulling the fuel tank (it's mounted on the back of the body under the tank and ahead of the Jag differential. The e-brake cables and the fan want to occupy the same space
).
Right now it's installed without the fan because of clearance issues, but so far it's keeping the temps under 200. I would be more comfortable with the fan installed, but I'm going to have to re-engineer the mounting arrangement, which means pulling the fuel tank (it's mounted on the back of the body under the tank and ahead of the Jag differential. The e-brake cables and the fan want to occupy the same space
).
putz
Member
I would suggest to at least run some type of cooler I have one that would add to the front of a radiator to add cooling for puling a trailer.Flex-a-lite FAL 4120-6 Translife Transmission Cooler with #6 AN Fittings - Transmission Coolers - Atlantic Speed Warehouse
It is the smaller of these but they are talking only 77 here today.
It is the smaller of these but they are talking only 77 here today.
Hotrod46
Member
I guess I'm the "odd man out". I run the built-in radiator cooler with my 700R4. I do have a fairly stock converter and use the lockup on the highway. The converter came with my trans and I was told it was 2200 - 2400 stall although it seems tighter than that. I have a temp guage in the pan.
I have driven this car in the mountains and in city traffic with temps pushing 100 or higher (thanks to our recent heat wave). The engine temp has never been over 190 and the trans temp runs about 10 degrees under engine temp. As long as I'm getting numbers like that, I'll stick with the internal cooler.
Actually, it was Donsrods that helped make the decision to do it this way. He reported on another site about how cool his engine was running while my car was still under construction. Since my radiator and his are pretty close, I thought I would give it a try. My thought process was simple (it usually is:lol, if the engine isn't running hot then the trans isn't either. I have a feeling this was what the "old time" auto engineers were thinking when they originally stuck the cooler in the radiator. Most older cars ran under 200 degrees and that was perfect for the trans. Since the cooler is in the outlet side of the radiator (the coolest part), technically the trans is always going to be cooler than the engine, IF the internal cooler can reject the heat load fast enough. I doubt many modern radiators have that problem.
One other thing to add about external coolers. I've seen some mounted in ways and places that prevent them getting little if any airflow. It doesn't matter how big it is if it's mounted that way, 'cause it ain't gonna work.very well Even the units with fans aren't going to work if airflow is restricted.
Sorry for the long post to a simple question.
Mike
I have driven this car in the mountains and in city traffic with temps pushing 100 or higher (thanks to our recent heat wave). The engine temp has never been over 190 and the trans temp runs about 10 degrees under engine temp. As long as I'm getting numbers like that, I'll stick with the internal cooler.
Actually, it was Donsrods that helped make the decision to do it this way. He reported on another site about how cool his engine was running while my car was still under construction. Since my radiator and his are pretty close, I thought I would give it a try. My thought process was simple (it usually is:lol
, if the engine isn't running hot then the trans isn't either. I have a feeling this was what the "old time" auto engineers were thinking when they originally stuck the cooler in the radiator. Most older cars ran under 200 degrees and that was perfect for the trans. Since the cooler is in the outlet side of the radiator (the coolest part), technically the trans is always going to be cooler than the engine, IF the internal cooler can reject the heat load fast enough. I doubt many modern radiators have that problem.One other thing to add about external coolers. I've seen some mounted in ways and places that prevent them getting little if any airflow. It doesn't matter how big it is if it's mounted that way, 'cause it ain't gonna work.very well Even the units with fans aren't going to work if airflow is restricted.
Sorry for the long post to a simple question.
Mike
Screaming Metal
Active Member
Lee_in_KC said:The main source of heat in our set-ups is the converter. The higher the stall the more heat. I have a 2800-3000 stall converter and was originally running a cooler like Rick's, only I had the shorter single-pass version. I became concerned about heat and installed a tranny temp gauge, and was dismayed to see my temps in the 220 range in city traffic on hot days. TCI says the ideal temp range is 175-225, but I wanted mine towards the lower end of that range, so I installed one of these...
Right now it's installed without the fan because of clearance issues, but so far it's keeping the temps under 200. I would be more comfortable with the fan installed, but I'm going to have to re-engineer the mounting arrangement, which means pulling the fuel tank (it's mounted on the back of the body under the tank and ahead of the Jag differential. The e-brake cables and the fan want to occupy the same space
In a trans......the converter slipping....dogging the throttle.....hot asphaslt only inches away from the trans. oil pan.....header tubes hanging out there by the cooler lines......hot engine temps being transmitted thru the alum. transmission housing......etc...etc....wild cams and blowers pulling hard at idle agianst the trans and brakes..........IMO.........yes...they're needed. Best to be safe than sorry!!!!!!!!!!! Trans and components are expensive, You shouldn't have to change them unless you got to....heat kills these things faster than running out of fluid!!!!!!!!!!!!
My radinater didnt come with a internall cooler so i went with the finned job.Its actually a heat sink,meaning the ribs go all the way to the center and the fluid swirls around the fins and cools it off.The air that goes under the t is like a wind tunnel and it keeps it cool.
blownt
Member
using the "built-in cooler" in the radiator is NOT a cooler. The purpose of that is to keep the transmission at operating temp in cold weather. Is running the trans line thru 190-210 degree water really a cooler????
Since I doubt many will be driving a bucket when it is below 40 degrees (I know I ain't) I would suggest getting an external cooler and not use the tube thru the radiator. I used to have the small B&M Street Rod cooler but a few years ago I switched to the radial fin type 18" long cooler.
Since I doubt many will be driving a bucket when it is below 40 degrees (I know I ain't) I would suggest getting an external cooler and not use the tube thru the radiator. I used to have the small B&M Street Rod cooler but a few years ago I switched to the radial fin type 18" long cooler.
Screaming Metal
Active Member
Track T-4 said:
Hey....they have the 'heat-sink' type at Spirit for under $40...........as far as where you want to put your temp. sending unit.......install it on the send side of your cooler lines right where it comes out of the trans.....that way, your measuring the hottest fluid.....the stuff thats just been worked.......
bucketkids
Member
Now ya got me going, I will have to install 2 sending units with a switchable guage so I can see what the cooler is really doing. I had temp sensors on a VW buggy with a 4 way switch so you could check eack head with one guage. I bought that from JC Whittney about 30 years ago so I will have to do some investigating.
How do you start a new thread on the sight?:swim: I feel so computer stupid sometimes.
How do you start a new thread on the sight?:swim: I feel so computer stupid sometimes.
Lee_in_KC
Active Member
Seems to me that, unless you know for sure how efficient your cooler is, measuring the temp on the hot side of the cooler doesn't really tell you anything.
The tranny gurus over on Hotrodders.com recommend putting the sender in the pan. The logic is you know the temp of the fluid after it's been through the cooler and as it's being picked up to be sent to the pump.
I mounted mine in the pan by drilling a hole in the driver's side just big enough to clear the threads of the sender. I put a nylon washer on the sender, stuck it in the hole, then secured it with a 1/4-to-1/8 NPT reducer used like a nut. I also put a nylon washer on the inside. About 100 miles so far with no sign of a leak.
The tranny gurus over on Hotrodders.com recommend putting the sender in the pan. The logic is you know the temp of the fluid after it's been through the cooler and as it's being picked up to be sent to the pump.
I mounted mine in the pan by drilling a hole in the driver's side just big enough to clear the threads of the sender. I put a nylon washer on the sender, stuck it in the hole, then secured it with a 1/4-to-1/8 NPT reducer used like a nut. I also put a nylon washer on the inside. About 100 miles so far with no sign of a leak.
bucketkids
Member
That sounds like the best idea KC. Thanks!
Hotrod46
Member
blownt said:
Actually, yes it is. Thermodynamics says that heat will transfer from the hotter fluid to a colder fluid. Doesn't have to be cool to you, just to the other fluid. The two will try to find equilibrium.
You are missing the fact that your engine temp is reading the coolant as it's leaving the engine, when it's at it's highest temp. The trans cooler in the radiator is on the discharge side, which is the coolest part of the radiator. How much cooler? Depends on the efficiency of the radiator and airflow. If the temp wasn't lower at the outlet than the inlet, your engine would overheat pretty quick.
I doubt that an automatic trans would survive in a heavy truck or car for very long if you by-passed the radiator cooler and ran it without anything. These radiator coolers were used exclusively by the OEM's for decades in cars that are 3-5 times heavier than ours. It wasn't uncommon for the transmission to last 100,000+ miles. The external coolers on stockers didn't become common until emission controls pushed the average coolant temps well over 200.
Mike
Screaming Metal
Active Member
Put a guage sending unit in the pan 'averages' your temp......it doesn't tell you your 'hottest' working temperature........fluid in the pan is the storage area.................hey but if thats what you want...
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