Does it have a Hemi!?

[RexRod]

Hello all!

I'm working on my wishbones today, and it occurred to me that I was actually starting my project. I know, I said earlier I wasn't.

I'm going for a 26/27 style body with a traditional rod inspired look. I'll admit up front that I'm sort of "traditional" retarded with all this stuff, the only thing I know for sure is I really like the look! I also don't really know what the term "traditional" really means.

So anyway, I started to think about what kind of engine I would like to run in my little rod. It all got me thinking, wouldn't it be really cool to run a 1st generation Hemi of some kind. I suspect the Hemi is not considered "traditional," but I still think it would be super cool.

I'm hoping I could start a discussion about the 1G Hemi and find out what people know about it, possible website links to useful information, and if you don't run one, why? If you do run one, why?

I started googling, and reading. Here is a little of what I know so far about the 1G Hemi:

Chrysler's "Fire Power" came in the 301 to 392 cubic inch flavors and has the widest bore spacings. Most definitely the preferred engine from what I've read so far. A 331, 354, or 392 would be super cool!

DeSoto's "Fire Dome" came in the 276 to 345 cubic inch flavors and has a smaller bore spacing, but still nice.

Dodge's little "Red Ram" engines are the smallest from 241 to 325 cubic inches with the smallest cylinder bore spacings. Not sure if these engines are worth looking at. I've seen the little 241's sell for a couple hundred bucks. Maybe in a little T, a 241 is big enough?

Money has a way of driving most decisions for me these days, so I need to be careful. I've seen 392's sell for upward of 5 grand in totally worn out rebuildable shape. A grand seems to be the going rate for a rebuildable 331.

What do you guys know and think about using a 1G Hemi in a project?

David

 

[Youngster]

verrrrry interestingggggggg.....!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Ron

 

[Satori]

I've never been a Dodge fan (no offense) but here's a little Hemi history:

Print Article

Either way, a Hemi would be sweet in a bucket! :welcome:

 

[Ted Brown]

If money is a factor, I would put in anything i can find that runs good, as is, tranny and all, an odd engine, one that is not in demand will cost the very least, any engine will be more power than you will NEED in a small T roadster, even a 4 banger hauls A$$.. So keep your eyes and ears peeled for a DEAL, maybe a wrecked car, so you will have a ton of other parts you can use also... Just my thoughts... for building a car on a shoe string... Good luck with any way you go, just have fun, life is short :welcome:

 

[RexRod]

Thanks for the input so far guys.

I did learn something this evening in my research, remember this 29 Ford PU built by Pinkee's Rod Shop? I know Fred was really inspired by the front end:

I've learned the engine in this car is a little 54' Dodge RedRam 241 cubic inch. I also learned that it was intentionally chosen because it's a little smaller. They felt the scale of the engine was a better fit for such a small car. I'm starting to think they're right.

Just thinking out loud.

David

 

[Ted Brown]

That car is very clean, nothing is below the frame, a real good idea and a great look

 

[LumenAl]

Them large Hemi heads make a smaller motor look bigger IMHO...

 

[Youngster]

david ... check out this sight. i have heard the guy is great to work with on parts. his name is bob walker.

www.hothemiheads.com

i would look for the intake, valve covers and trans adaptors first for this or any other of the the "odd" engines. sometimes these things can be harder to find than the engines.

Ron

 

[RexRod]

david ... check out this sight. i have heard the guy is great to work with on parts. his name is bob walker.

www.hothemiheads.com

i would look for the intake, valve covers and trans adaptors first for this or any other of the the "odd" engines. sometimes these things can be harder to find than the engines.

Ron

Thanks Ron! Hot Heads Research is one of the first places I found. When they are almost number one in a Google Search, you know they are good!

Here are some other really nice places for Hemi info. Most of them have really good links pages to even more stuff:

Mopar's Infamous Hemi
Chrysler Corporation Early Hemi Engines
Early Chrysler 331, 354 & 392 Hemi Motors
Rebuilding an early Hemi engine - Crankshaft Coalition Wiki
opening page
HEMI Tech- INDEX - THE H.A.M.B.

Thanks for the tip on valve covers and intake. The trans adapter will be a piece of cake for me to do on my own. I do need to be careful though, with three (technically four) cylinder bore spacings for the 1G Hemi, things like intakes and valve covers do not interchange due to the length differences. I've ordered a book on Amazon that should help with interchange issues.

I will definitely be going with a standard transmission. I'm thinking the T5 five speed. They are super common, and easy to get. Plus, there is a model from the S-10 that puts the shifter closer to the flywheel, and has a really short tail shaft. It's not the highest HP model, but the smaller Hemi's are only good for a couple/three hundred horses anyway. My engine goal is not for lots of power, I'm going for the look.

I figure over the next six month's or so if I can find an engine and trans, some tires and wheels, and get started on my body enough to have the rough size, I'll have enough to start mocking up the proportions of the project. Then a frame can start.

What should I call it? RexRod? That would make it convenient.

David

 

[Youngster]

what body are you lookin for david?

the ole skin head will be proud of you!!!! lol

Ron

 

[409T]

I've done a 331 and a 392 and the 331 was considerably cheaper to rebuild. That said, I think if I were to do another hemi, especially for a T-bucket I would do a Red Ram. The smaller engine might fit the T-bucket proportions better. Just my .02. However, if you do look at 331's, the cheapest will be the older ones that have the bell housing cast as part of the block. I had the newer style with a separate bell housing, so I don't know how well a manual clutch works with the older type. In either case, Hot Heads knows all.

Jeff

 

[RexRod]

what body are you lookin for david?

the ole skin head will be proud of you!!!! lol

Ron

I'm going the over-achiever route, and try to build my body out of sheet steel or aluminum. I've got to have some excuse to finish my English Wheel! It ticks me off everytime I see the darn thing sitting in the corner unfinished. And at seven feet high, it's hard to miss!

I've done a 331 and a 392 and the 331 was considerably cheaper to rebuild. That said, I think if I were to do another hemi, especially for a T-bucket I would do a Red Ram. The smaller engine might fit the T-bucket proportions better. Just my .02. However, if you do look at 331's, the cheapest will be the older ones that have the bell housing cast as part of the block. I had the newer style with a separate bell housing, so I don't know how well a manual clutch works with the older type. In either case, Hot Heads knows all.

Jeff

Thanks Jeff! I know where there is a complete from air cleaner to oil pan Red Ram 241 that could be had for less than 200 bucks. It even has the old two speed automatic still bolted to the back. Of course the trany is worthless for me. I might even be able to sell the old trans to a restorer for what I pay for the whole thing. I need to do some research to find out if it's any good. The problem is it's about 400 miles from here.

Your right about the 331 being cheaper to rebuild. The problem with the Chrysler FirePower Hemi's are they're size. A FirePower (any size) is heavier and physically larger than an all iron big block Chevy. So I'm in agreement with you, the smaller RedRam might be the ticket! The Dodge RedRam is a little larger and about the same weight of a small block Chevy.

David

 

[Youngster]

either way you go with the body david, i can feed you measurements. i have both the '23 type and the '27 type in steel here. more on this later.

you haven't considered moving to minnesota have you?? wouldn't mind having you for a neighbor!!!!

Ron

 

[RexRod]

either way you go with the body david, i can feed you measurements. i have both the '23 type and the '27 type in steel here. more on this later.

you haven't considered moving to minnesota have you?? wouldn't mind having you for a neighbor!!!!

Ron

Thanks Ron! I might need some help with dimensions.

I would love to be your neighbor! But I think that I would be the one who benefited the most. You are way ahead of me in all this stuff.

David

 

[rooster57]

Rex the english wheel should be renamed the "English Thumbnail Remover"

 

[RexRod]

Rex the english wheel should be renamed the "English Thumbnail Remover"

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

I'm so paranoid right now, when I was roughing out my wishbone front brackets, I spent about three extra hours by machining off some of the unwanted instead of using the...... BAND SAW!!!!!!

I don't like the band saw right now. :sad:

David

 

[rooster57]

I know one slip and its a good ole blood letting. As i get older i factor in the time it will take to recoperate from an accident when i use tools in a manner they were not designed for.

 

[MRYoung]

I've always wanted to build a 392 Hemi, it's on my wish list. Performance Automotive Wharehouse has catolog devoted to early hemis, someone may have posted a link already, I did'nt read through the whole post closely. Here's a link to their main site.
https://secure.pawengineparts.com/index.html

I also remember reading somewhere that you could convert the Poly engines to hemi, a head swap, maybe more, I can't recall. You could look into that.

 

[RexRod]

I've always wanted to build a 392 Hemi, it's on my wish list. Performance Automotive Wharehouse has catolog devoted to early hemis, someone may have posted a link already, I did'nt read through the whole post closely. Here's a link to their main site.
https://secure.pawengineparts.com/index.html

I also remember reading somewhere that you could convert the Poly engines to hemi, a head swap, maybe more, I can't recall. You could look into that.

Thanks MrYoung!

Some of the things I've been learning about the Hemi is the super high cost of rebuilding them. This was mentioned earlier above.

An example is: you can buy a pretty complete rebuild kit for a small block chevy with pistons, rings, bearings, pushrods, lifters, cam, gaskets, etc....., all for about the price of just the main and rod bearings for a Hemi. A set of pistons can set you back between $500 and $900 alone. And it's cheaper to rebuild the Chrysler Hemi than it is the Dodge or Desoto.

Parts are not cheap, so you really got to want one. There is also the extra costs for machine work because apparently only a few shops in the country know how to work with these things (that I find hard to believe, but then I'm a precision machinist).

One good thing I've learned is there are a ton of these things sitting around in the backs and corners of garages. From what I've been reading, it's common for someone to buy one to use, then they find out what it really costs to rebuild, and they don't act on it. So they sit.

I'm still going to keep pursuing this idea though. Everyone says a Hemi in your ride can't be had on a budget, but I'm not conviced yet.

David

 

[409T]

If you do use a 392 or something similar, think about the front suspension as well. Those things weigh 750 lbs. That is, of course, without the 8-71 on top.

Jeff