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Electric Fuel Pump Failure

Discussion in 'Engines and Drivelines' started by Indycars, Aug 17, 2021.

  1. Indycars

    Indycars
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    I had a fuel pump failure yesterday. I was on my way to Advanced Auto where I did work to recycle
    some oil when it failed.

    First I tested by connecting power directly to the pump, all I got was sparks when I made the
    connection. Pump did not turn over.

    I pulled it apart to see what went wrong. The armature was locked up, I could barely turn it by hand
    with the rotor and vanes removed. It also appeared to have some water on the motor side.

    FP01_FuelPumpInternals_02924.jpg
    FP01_FuelPumpInternals_02926.jpg
    FP01_FuelPumpInternals_02931.jpg
    The sleeve bearing is steel (Magnetic) when I was expecting a Oil-Embedded Sleeve
    Bearing. Maybe I should buy a new pump and install Oil-Embedded Sleeve Bearing
    from McMaster-Carr. I'm also considering removing the brass cup plug and threading
    the hole so I can seal it. Then drilling the sleeve bearing so I can lube the bearing
    periodically. It would appear that the little sponge washer does not have the capacity
    to keep the steel sleeve bearing lubricated. Or I could pull the pump every winter and
    add some lube to the sponge washer with the shaft out, then re-assemble the pump again.

    But this does nothing for the brushes. I did find that Quick Fuel sells the end cap with
    brushes for $26, looks like it would fit the Holley pump that I have.

    https://www.holley.com/products/fue...service/fuel_pump_repair_kits/parts/30-126QFT

    upload_2021-8-17_14-3-33.png

    FP02_FuelPumpInternals_02935.jpg
    FP02_FuelPumpInternals_02937.jpg

    The little hole just below the cup plug goes all the way thru into the sponge washer
    cavity. Maybe that's the solution, skirt some oil thru this hole periodically.
    .
     
    rbsWELDER likes this.
  2. Island Girl

    Island Girl
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    That's some significant burn on the brush board . . . look like it's been drawing abnormally heavy current for some time.

    Holley isn't the brand quality it used to be when we first started to use them many decades ago. . . . That's the main reasons why I didn't consider Holley when I bought my fuel system components

    Used to be the Holley blue was almost the gold standard for a street/strip car, now it's just another POS choice.
     
    Rip VW, Indycars and rbsWELDER like this.
  3. fletcherson

    fletcherson
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    I had the same basic pump, but the marine version, fail also. It had all of maybe three hours run time on it. Mine was very crusty inside, apparently from the lovely ethanol blended fuel. Those pumps cost too much to fail that easily, imho.
     
    lincolnuT and Indycars like this.
  4. Hacker

    Hacker
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    why doesn't anybody run a mechanical fuel pump anymore? seems like a lot less to go wrong and quite capable of handling what most of us are driving.
     
  5. Spanky

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    In my case there wasn't room. :rolleyes:

    Alt bracket.jpg
     
  6. fletcherson

    fletcherson
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    Late model blocks don’t have provisions for mechanical pumps. That was the case on my boat.
     
  7. 409T

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    I have one.
     
  8. Indycars

    Indycars
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    Got the new fuel pump in, but before I could install the pump I needed to install the connector.
    Decided to go away from the spade connector and install a Deutsch DT connector capable of
    carrying 13 amps. The pump is rated at 3 amps giving me plenty of head room. I have 12 gauge
    wire going to the pump so I had to add a few inches of 14 gauge wire onto the 12 gauge wire
    for the DT series connector. The largest wire it will accept is 14 gauge.

    I have a syringe so I pushed some air tool oil into the small hole noted above. When I installed
    the -8 AN to 3/8" NPT adapter into the pump I noticed there was oil in the threads. Cleaned the
    oil out the threads before adding Permatex thread sealer to the pipe threads and installing the
    adapters into the pump.

    This will be a maintenance item every winter to keep the bushings lubricated.

    FP03_FuelPumpNewWithDeutschConn_02938_02939.jpg
    FP03_FuelPumpInstalledNew_02940.jpg


    I started with this kit, I'm glad I did this. I have since replenished some of the items.
    Deutsch DT Series Kit includes all 30 of the most common DT series components, including terminals, wedgelocks, housings, plugs, and a terminal removal tool.

    This is the only time I don't crimp & solder my connectors.

    upload_2021-8-19_16-16-18.png
    .
     
    rbsWELDER and Rip VW like this.
  9. PotvinGuy

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    Disappointing. That's not a cheap pump. And just a measly 90 day warranty. Consolidation of SEMA companies seems to have not been good for us.
     
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  10. Indycars

    Indycars
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    My Holley Pump ....... End Cap.

    upload_2021-8-19_19-55-10.png

    Turns out this will not work, they have reduced the size of the bushing in the end cap. Guess
    there is a reason they don't show you the inside. Info-commercial ....... but there is more. They
    show a spring, but there is none in the box.

    It should fit this end of the armature shaft, but the bushing is too small.

    upload_2021-8-19_19-11-1.png

    HOLLEY IS OBVIOUSLY MAKING THINGS INCOMPATIBLE !!!

    It comes with ZERO springs !!!

    FP03_QuickFuel_EndCap_30-126QFT_02942.jpg
    FP03_QuickFuel_EndCap_30-126QFT_02943.jpg
    .
     
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  11. Indycars

    Indycars
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    It's been several months that I had zero fuel pressure initially, but if I flipped the switch off
    and back on I suddenly had pressure. I didn't know what to make of this observation at the
    time. I was thinking the switch was at fault, but then I changed out the switch. That didn't
    fix the problem, but I was still ignoring the facts that keep hitting me in the head !!!

    Pounding me in the head .... should have know with all the headaches I was having !!!
     
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  12. Indycars

    Indycars
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    It seems Holley had increased their prices over the last few years ........

    My original purchase on November 30, 2012 was $127.95. Today August 18th, 2021 the price was $171.95

    upload_2021-8-19_20-33-19.png


    upload_2021-8-19_20-30-42.png
    .
     
  13. fletcherson

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    The marine version, which is blue and has a vent, likely spark free, is quite a bit more. It’s criminal not to sell service parts for “premium products”. Many of our long trusted brands have been consolidated and most times it’s not beneficial for the consumer. On the DT service kit, pay close attention to the socket contacts. I had a long term intermittent problem that I finally solved. It turned out that one of the male pins was not round at the end, it was deformed and as a result over spread the female pin and once the deformed part went all the way in, it no longer made contact, leaving a loose fitting connection, which was problematic to locate.
     
  14. Indycars

    Indycars
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    If you go online and register, they increase the warranty to one year.
     
  15. Island Girl

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    And then Lord only knows how many third parties they sell your email address to . . . . .

    I signed up on Eastwood's site a few years back, and never could I have imagined the number of shit emails I would end up with as time went on.

    Worst of all, just like Del City . . they won't ship here via Priority Mail, or ship to the freight forwarder in Miami, so the only way I can buy anything from them is if they have it on Amazon.
     
  16. Indycars

    Indycars
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    That's what my JUNKxx@xxx.com is for. I always use it for such occasions.
     
  17. Indycars

    Indycars
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    I went for my first drive after replacing the Holley fuel pump. I got about 1/4 mile from the house
    and it started top stumble like it's running out of gas. I flipped the fuel pump (FP) switch off and
    back on and everything was fine again. I didn't have time to check the Fuel pressure gauge , but it
    must have been zero. I have a FP pressure gauge on my dash. This is exactly the same problem I've
    had all summer. It would appear that I have TWO problems at the same time, I have fixed one of
    them.... the pump. I can hear the pump when it's running before I start the engine. I will be paying
    strict attention to the pump sounds
    and the FP pressure gauge just before I start the engine. I've
    always thought the pump sounds were present before I started, but maybe not ... time will tell.

    Just a thought ..... could the FP be running until I turn the key and the engine starts, but the pump stops.
    I would not hear this change. Could the relay be getting a voltage spike that makes it un-latch ????
    Doesn't seem likely when you look at the drawing below, it should have continuous power. I have
    replaced the switch by moving to un-used switch on the panel in the console, but the problem remains
    ...... see the 2nd graphic.

    Cooling,FuelPump,Horn&TCC_07.jpg

    FP17_ConsoleWiring_6082.jpg
     
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  18. Indycars

    Indycars
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    I know quoting myself is self ego building !!!

    I just duplicated the problem ....

    - turned the key to on position (pump is running making noise)
    - turned the key further to start position and I hear the starter engage momentarily ( engine does not start, but it did turn 1/2 turn ).
    - pump pressure goes to zero and the pump is no longer making noises.

    What the hell, what did I do to piss-off the universe ???
    .
     
  19. old round fart

    old round fart
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    Could the power be coming from a source not ignition? Like Acc? There are circuits not active when starter is on.
     
  20. Island Girl

    Island Girl
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    `Have you checked the voltage on the fuel pump relay coil while cranking . . . . maybe high starter current drops the voltage too low to where the relay drops out

    Maybe jump out the impact switch while trouble shooting to eliminate it as a possibility . . .
     






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