Front steer steering arms
- Thread starter tfeverfred
- Start date
Clarify...do you just mean it had the arms in front of the axle, or do you mean true reversed Ackermann like the racers use? You know the usual Ackermann diagram showing the lines thru the kingpins and the arm ends go toward the rear of the car (and optimally meet at the rear end); in reverse Ackermann the lines will meet somewhere in front of the car. This is only used in some race applications.
Heard this all my life, and tried to live by it. BUT ---then when you get into designing and planning, You have to think OUTSIDE the BOX, so to speak, and see what works BEST for YOU. More than one mouse trap out there.
All cars that were built in a factory were not designed to have true Ackermann and had no undesirable traits other than turning. In the Examples that are shown with true Ackermann, the front wheels just didn't track the same when turning HARD in either direction unless it had true Ackermann. But in every day driving, no problems existed with tire wear or drive-ability if toe-in and caster was adjusted properly.
And as I think it was Jim that said if you are using the tie rod for a bumper, then you are following too close.. Many Bucket owners have put thousands of miles on them without true Ackermann steering. I have and will continue to do so as mine drives just fine on the interstate highways and local roads to. Went to Baton Rouge and N.O. La. with no problems except on Miss. interstates that had pot holes as long as the Bucket and 6-8" deep., with no driving concerns at all.
Build your Buckets the way YOU want them, just make sure they are safe and begone with criticizing others of what they have-- up and until you have walked a mile in their shoes, as the old saying goes. JMTCW
Tjbucket
Member
Hacker,
If your icon is the bucket you are referring to, I would like to see mores pictures. I really like the low stance, looks awesome! You referred to "bad ackerman arms"?? I thought the ackerman angle is in reference to the angle that the hair pins to or whatever four bar suspension you are using in relation to the differential? I understand that the ackerman angle is in reference to the tracking of the front tires as one tracks tighter than the other tire depending on what turn you are making. So, you lost me at ackerman arms.....Vehicles with bad ackerman also have issues with skipping of hopping during turns or burn outs correct??
Hackerbilt
Active Member
Thanks TJ!
The Ackerman angle is based on the angle of the steering arms themselves...not the hairpins or radius arms.
The angle of the arms sets the position of the tierod ends in relation to the king pins, to allow the inner tire to turn a little sharper in a turn.
My inner now turns a little less than the outer tire!
You don't notice it in regular driving as the wheels are hardly ever off center enough for it to come into play.
My car has original Chevy arms (I think) that are mounted forward.
The Ackerman diagram for my set up would have the lines projecting forward to a point ahead of the car.
I have no room to just flip them to the rear.
I need to fab a set of arms like EX JUNK has on his car to get correct Ackerman...and I intend to do just that as soon as I can spare the time.
The Ackerman angle is based on the angle of the steering arms themselves...not the hairpins or radius arms.
The angle of the arms sets the position of the tierod ends in relation to the king pins, to allow the inner tire to turn a little sharper in a turn.
My inner now turns a little less than the outer tire!
You don't notice it in regular driving as the wheels are hardly ever off center enough for it to come into play.
My car has original Chevy arms (I think) that are mounted forward.
The Ackerman diagram for my set up would have the lines projecting forward to a point ahead of the car.
I have no room to just flip them to the rear.
I need to fab a set of arms like EX JUNK has on his car to get correct Ackerman...and I intend to do just that as soon as I can spare the time.
old round fart
Well-Known Member
Have you tried switching the arms from side to side or upside down to put the ends farther out? The line for ackerman doesn't stop at the spindle!
tfeverfred
Well-Known Member
What brand of tires were those?
Those were Hoosier Pro-Street radials.
Hackerbilt
Active Member
Can't flip them side to side and mount them as they are now because the arm will hit the rotor long before the bolts ever tighten...and it appears there will be axle interference if I mount them to the inside of the spindle. I need to dig up a set of extra arms and experiment a bit. My arms are chromed so I can't really do any clearancing or anything.
tfeverfred
Well-Known Member
Did you mean they got 100,000 miles or 10,000. I've gotten 40,000 out of a set of Michelin’s, but 100,000? I'd be all over that.
tfeverfred
Well-Known Member
Ya know, I'm really surprised this is still being hashed over. In my case and it looks like several others, the ONLY issue I had with my Ackerman being off, was a larger than usual turning radius. To my knowledge, it doesn't effect tracking or cause wheel hop. MY preference, in MY build, was to get back to a reasonable turning radius, like I had when I first built my last T. That's it. I drove for 7 years with the ackerman off and slowly got used to doing a lot of extra steering wheel movements to make a U-turn or transverse a small or crowded parking lot. Lame, IMO.
Now that I'm in a position to remedy that, I'm doing it. Again, that's it. I was asked earlier, how do I know the new arms will fit? They'll fit because the ones I'm getting will be very close in length to what I had before. I'm buying some pieces from Ron to make them. If they work, that will be great. If they don't, I'll get them from a source I found. So, again, that's it. If you're driving YOUR car and you're satisfied with how it turns, congrats. ME? I got tired of it real fast, but got lazy and never fixed it. Now, I have the chance to fix it and I will.
This is NOT a safety issue, it's a preference.
Now that I'm in a position to remedy that, I'm doing it. Again, that's it. I was asked earlier, how do I know the new arms will fit? They'll fit because the ones I'm getting will be very close in length to what I had before. I'm buying some pieces from Ron to make them. If they work, that will be great. If they don't, I'll get them from a source I found. So, again, that's it. If you're driving YOUR car and you're satisfied with how it turns, congrats. ME? I got tired of it real fast, but got lazy and never fixed it. Now, I have the chance to fix it and I will.
This is NOT a safety issue, it's a preference.
Yeah, 100k miles in 20 years. And there was still tread left. The front end of my bucket only puts about 400 lb on each tire, and most of those miles were on good streets well under 50 mph. Gave them and the wheels to a friend building an Austin gasser-style for the street.
tfeverfred
Well-Known Member
Unbelievable. No.... amazing. If someone told me something like that, in person, I'd walk away. Crazy.
Papa Tony
New Member
Fred...
Hope you are still kicking...
You said you found a SOURCE for steering arms that are front mounted and correct the Ackerman?
Care to share it?
Thanks,
Tony
Wesley White
New Member
old round fart
Well-Known Member
I’ll be building my steering arms in the next week or so an because I lengthened the
Wheelbase and narrowed my axle any stock arms will not work. I want to give my car as good a chance to turn in good so I will actually make my intersection about 5” ahead of rear axle centerline to give me a little turn authority. With narrow tires and reduced weight I may need it. If it doesn’t work I can bolt on another set until it does!
Wheelbase and narrowed my axle any stock arms will not work. I want to give my car as good a chance to turn in good so I will actually make my intersection about 5” ahead of rear axle centerline to give me a little turn authority. With narrow tires and reduced weight I may need it. If it doesn’t work I can bolt on another set until it does!
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