model A frame..
- Thread starter Brucer
- Start date
just some food for thought bruce ... your gonna pay around 100 bucks for a used A frame or a good set of rails. for 75 to 100 bucks you can buy a length of 2 x 4, 10 guage tubing. with a good frame sketch, you'll have a great pair of new frame rails with no rust or pitting issues. another way to go is to go to your local sheet metal shop and have the pieces sheared and broke.
just curious ... why an A frame?
Ron
just curious ... why an A frame?
Ron
Brucer,
Here is a link to the dimensions if you build your own:
http://www.wescottsauto.com/WebCatalog/FR-2.pdf
David
Here is a link to the dimensions if you build your own:
http://www.wescottsauto.com/WebCatalog/FR-2.pdf
David
Ted Brown
Member
A Frame, remember that they were not made to be welded on, notice that every part is either rivited or bolted to the frame, and they have no twist resistance, if you box in places, that is where they will crack right off at the edge of that boxing plate, Like they say, build a new frame from box tubing, (I would) maybe 2x4x.188 Just me and my thoughts here :lol:
Brucer
New Member
the frame i have now is a tradional T frame, copied from the ccr frame plans, and i have a 27 ford steel tub.. the original builder had it setup for a glass tub, i guess, evidently they are different lengths.. havent really measured yet but the wheelbase seems long, i might be jumping the gun because i havent got it in the garage yet to look it over and measure it out..
basicly i'm going to have to strip the steering box mount, and brake pedal assembly, and engine mounts, radiator mounts and move them forward about 4 1/2 to 5inches...
the rear is too wide for what i'm going after.. its 64inches wide, and i dont want to run the Big Fat tires on the back to make up the difference with backspacing, and i come across that quickchange so cheap, that its going in it, so thats the rearend being swapped..
The A frame seems cleaner on the frontend (would be main reason for swapping to an A chassis), I hear the A chassis handles better also.. and for the labor i would have in the T frame, i could sell it and have a very good running start on an clean A chassis, either if i build the frame myself or buy one.
basicly i'm going to have to strip the steering box mount, and brake pedal assembly, and engine mounts, radiator mounts and move them forward about 4 1/2 to 5inches...
the rear is too wide for what i'm going after.. its 64inches wide, and i dont want to run the Big Fat tires on the back to make up the difference with backspacing, and i come across that quickchange so cheap, that its going in it, so thats the rearend being swapped..
The A frame seems cleaner on the frontend (would be main reason for swapping to an A chassis), I hear the A chassis handles better also.. and for the labor i would have in the T frame, i could sell it and have a very good running start on an clean A chassis, either if i build the frame myself or buy one.
plese understand, i'm not trying to be a wise guy or knowit all here bruce. i'm just working from past experience, ok.
Ted is right in stating the A frame was rivited together. the reason for that was because Henry wanted the frames to be very flexable. remember the roads back in the late '20's were for the most part un-paved. most had rutts that our 4 wheeler friend would really enjoy. welding the frames then would have been a disaster. becuase of that, Henry used a steel with a very high nichol content. hard to properly weld.
as far as the ride characteristics go, the stock A rode better that the T, but not that much. you have the ability to build your own frame and armed with the knowledge we've all gained since Henry put the first T on the rode, you can get a much more comfortable ride that he ever dreamed of.
now to your frame ... sounds like its a bit long for what you're building.the best way to design your frame is to mock up what you have in front of you. namely the engine, body, front and rear axles radiator shell and tires. set them up where it looks good to you. then walk away for an hour or so. now take another look. if you still like what you see, start measuring for your frame. most production frames front the builders like total, speedway ccr, and spirit are a compramise some any number of engine /trans combanations can be used without changing the fitures they use to weld them up.you can tighten up on the alowances fro your cars componets.
one more point ... if you're going to channel the body, you don't need 4" tubing or the 4 1/2" a rail hiegth. your just giving up interior space. 3" tubing of either 1/8" or 3/16" wall will serve you just fine.
sorry about the long post ... lots of stuff i wanted to cover for you.
Ron
Ted is right in stating the A frame was rivited together. the reason for that was because Henry wanted the frames to be very flexable. remember the roads back in the late '20's were for the most part un-paved. most had rutts that our 4 wheeler friend would really enjoy. welding the frames then would have been a disaster. becuase of that, Henry used a steel with a very high nichol content. hard to properly weld.
as far as the ride characteristics go, the stock A rode better that the T, but not that much. you have the ability to build your own frame and armed with the knowledge we've all gained since Henry put the first T on the rode, you can get a much more comfortable ride that he ever dreamed of.
now to your frame ... sounds like its a bit long for what you're building.the best way to design your frame is to mock up what you have in front of you. namely the engine, body, front and rear axles radiator shell and tires. set them up where it looks good to you. then walk away for an hour or so. now take another look. if you still like what you see, start measuring for your frame. most production frames front the builders like total, speedway ccr, and spirit are a compramise some any number of engine /trans combanations can be used without changing the fitures they use to weld them up.you can tighten up on the alowances fro your cars componets.
one more point ... if you're going to channel the body, you don't need 4" tubing or the 4 1/2" a rail hiegth. your just giving up interior space. 3" tubing of either 1/8" or 3/16" wall will serve you just fine.
sorry about the long post ... lots of stuff i wanted to cover for you.
Ron
Brucer
New Member
no biggy about the long post, i always read what you have to say youngster, plus i have the time today its sunday/rest day, and i'm just fiddling around.
and yes i agree with you, i need to mock up, just dont have the room in the garage at the moment to get the chassis in there.. my plans are going to be a 27 roadster pickup, so the extra length is ok, i just need to see if its actually enough.. i think it will be. if a standard chassis is 103", then the 113-114" wheelbase i have should be close.... if not i can just use longer radius rod/hairpins on the back and build out the rear of the frame.
i thought they hot riveted the frames because welders werent developed yet..
and yes i agree with you, i need to mock up, just dont have the room in the garage at the moment to get the chassis in there.. my plans are going to be a 27 roadster pickup, so the extra length is ok, i just need to see if its actually enough.. i think it will be. if a standard chassis is 103", then the 113-114" wheelbase i have should be close.... if not i can just use longer radius rod/hairpins on the back and build out the rear of the frame.
i thought they hot riveted the frames because welders werent developed yet..
der Spieler
Member
I found this doing a search last week. I'm thinking of ordering them tomorrow. Can't get hurt too bad for $9.99.
Model A Chassis
Model A Chassis
Brucer
New Member
give me your email addy, i'll send you some plans that i think come from brian angus on the hamb.. i have model a rails, and also some dwg files of the bed from him... he posted them over there a few months ago.. they are very detailed drawings with dimensions.
adding this you have to download a program to use them, its like a cad drawing viewer.. maybe corel draw or something like that.
adding this you have to download a program to use them, its like a cad drawing viewer.. maybe corel draw or something like that.
Brucer
New Member
tzoom47@yahoo.com you have mail... i hope that email turned out ok, i put the link to autodesk used to view that file.. if it doesnt work let me know..
Keeper
Active Member
I have a bunch of his and other files here.
Index of /hamb
His "a rails" and other stuff is there with his blessing.
Index of /hamb
His "a rails" and other stuff is there with his blessing.
donsrods
Member
I've got an original Model A frame under my 27, and I boxed it and added some K members to strengthen it. The guys are right, I have more work and money in it than if I would have bought a repro frame or built one to resemble a model a frame. However, that being said, it has been done for about 20 years now, and was my daily driver for 7 years, and held up well. One of these days I will get around to freshening up the whole car and will use the same frame.
Don
Don
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