Shocks are overrated anyway. Ditch 'em, problem solved. REAL rodders like their stuff bouncing around.
I DON'T!! Scary as hell when the axle starts to seesaw up and down. left and right sides when you hit a pothole!!
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- Thread starter RedBeard
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I DON'T!! Scary as hell when the axle starts to seesaw up and down. left and right sides when you hit a pothole!!
2old2fast
Active Member
Roadmonster , I've read your "danger" post 3 times & can't make any sense of it , are you thinking that the rad. rods angled away from the frame have some bearing on keeping the axle centered???? That has no effect at all , what keeps the axle centered is the spring , that & those who have chosen some sort of panard rod [again not needed] ....the radius rods control for & aft motion & prevent axle rotation , that's it ..
dave
dave
roadmonster
Member
Not a "danger" post, more of a common sense post. Spring perch keeps axle centered, radius rods locate the ends. The further outboard, the better. Same with shocks. It's ok to use a short spring but if you mount shocks and rods inboard you lose triangulation, shock travel, and strength.
Those batwings were not designed for that short spring and the shock interference is proof. That's not the way good engineering works. If you want shocks angled in at the bottom you lose travel and damping, and if your radius rods hug the frame, you lose strength and stability.
Batwings that mount to the spring perch are designed to be used at the end of the axle, not the middle. If you want to keep the spring, change the batwing and perch. If you want to keep that stuff, change the spring.
Do we really believe that someone designed that arrangement and then slapped his forehead when he realized the clevis wouldn't fit? No. It's a batwing designed for a 34" spring being used on a 26". Thus the interference.
Those batwings were not designed for that short spring and the shock interference is proof. That's not the way good engineering works. If you want shocks angled in at the bottom you lose travel and damping, and if your radius rods hug the frame, you lose strength and stability.
Batwings that mount to the spring perch are designed to be used at the end of the axle, not the middle. If you want to keep the spring, change the batwing and perch. If you want to keep that stuff, change the spring.
Do we really believe that someone designed that arrangement and then slapped his forehead when he realized the clevis wouldn't fit? No. It's a batwing designed for a 34" spring being used on a 26". Thus the interference.
roadmonster
Member
BTW, my front end is extremely stable, tracks hands-off for days at any speed, and can not be induced to shimmy under any conditions. 1/8" toe-in results in zero tire wear and shocks do their job quite well. Tight radius rods would require more toe-in to counteract the push on the unsupported wheel ends, which would flex more. A bump at one wheel would make the car pull that way, and a bump on both wheels would cause an undamped fore-and-aft flexing.
roadmonster
Member
Facts are facts. My 34" spring clears the clevis easily, but a 26" hits. Look at the photos. Imagine mine squeezed in to 26" and you can see the clevis would hit. Imagine the 26" spread out and it does not hit.
If the clevis hits, you're doing something wrong. Period.
If the clevis hits, you're doing something wrong. Period.
Man you don't even have the same set up!!!!! You have a ford I beam spring over. You are comparing apples to oranges. That set up that he has is a typical Speedway, Spirit, RPM type axle, we all use a 26" spring and thousands of them have been sold and are in use every day. The man has a mismatch of some hardware. You keep saying it won't work and it dangerous when you really don't know what you are talking about.
roadmonster
Member
Mismatched hardware is exactly what I said. But then I don't know what I'm talking about.
fluidfloyd
Active Member
ou ar corrct 2old2fast, post: 181682, member: 4723"]Roadmonster , I've read your "danger" post 3 times & can't make any sense of it , are you thinking that the rad. rods angled away from the frame have some bearing on keeping the axle centered???? That has no effect at all , what keeps the axle centered is the spring , that & those who have chosen some sort of panard rod [again not needed] ....the radius rods control for & aft motion & prevent axle rotation , that's it ..
dave[/QUOTE]
dave...You are correct on the spring centering the axle. Clevises should never be used to center anything as they are not designed to take any kind of side loads. They are only for locating for and aft.
George
dave[/QUOTE]
dave...You are correct on the spring centering the axle. Clevises should never be used to center anything as they are not designed to take any kind of side loads. They are only for locating for and aft.
George
fluidfloyd
Active Member
And you jumped out of perfectly good airplanes and that was normal! Where's the excitement of fear Airborne man!
Have you EVER seen a PERFECT airplane? Some I jumped from were flying coffins!! All have flaws of some kind!!
fluidfloyd
Active Member
No parachutes for Rotorheads!
They were fun Too!! But I'd rather rappel of of one!!!!
Are you mad!? No shocks is a recipe for disaster. I for one would like to see a law requiring at least TWO shocks on each side! Who's with me?Shocks are overrated anyway. Ditch 'em, problem solved. REAL rodders like their stuff bouncing around.
roadmonster
Member
This is so much fun. I love being insulted by people who don't even read the posts.
Here it is, very simple. The bracket and spring are not compatible (note the interference). You can get a bracket to match the spring or a spring to match the bracket. Or, as some suggest, you can work around the poor engineering with more poor engineering. Sure, let's add a dogleg link and get that pesky shock out of the way, never mind that the shocks and radius rods are at a terrible angle.
If you want to use a 26" spring, use a separate spring perch but keep the shocks and radius rods outboard. If you want perch and bracket together, use a longer spring.
I wish someone could help me out and show me where I said radius rods center the axle or where I compared I-beams to tubes. It only shows you didn't read the post. As for not knowing what I'm talking about.....again, read the post and you will see that I absolutely do know what I'm talking about.
I solve engineering problems much more complicated than this every day in my job (I'm a technician in one of the world's largest aerospace companies). I've been driving a thoroughly well-sorted out T for over 7 years and many thousands of miles. So when someone suggests jury-rigging a bracket designed to work at the end of the axle with a dogleg link to vertical (or worse) shocks and radius rods 26" apart, I offer some well-considered advice. And get misquoted and insulted for it.
Anyone can build his T however he wants. But if he wants a safe, strong, good-looking suspension, he might reconsider that arrangement.
Here it is, very simple. The bracket and spring are not compatible (note the interference). You can get a bracket to match the spring or a spring to match the bracket. Or, as some suggest, you can work around the poor engineering with more poor engineering. Sure, let's add a dogleg link and get that pesky shock out of the way, never mind that the shocks and radius rods are at a terrible angle.
If you want to use a 26" spring, use a separate spring perch but keep the shocks and radius rods outboard. If you want perch and bracket together, use a longer spring.
I wish someone could help me out and show me where I said radius rods center the axle or where I compared I-beams to tubes. It only shows you didn't read the post. As for not knowing what I'm talking about.....again, read the post and you will see that I absolutely do know what I'm talking about.
I solve engineering problems much more complicated than this every day in my job (I'm a technician in one of the world's largest aerospace companies). I've been driving a thoroughly well-sorted out T for over 7 years and many thousands of miles. So when someone suggests jury-rigging a bracket designed to work at the end of the axle with a dogleg link to vertical (or worse) shocks and radius rods 26" apart, I offer some well-considered advice. And get misquoted and insulted for it.
Anyone can build his T however he wants. But if he wants a safe, strong, good-looking suspension, he might reconsider that arrangement.
Time for a CHILL PILL!! Everyone has an opinion and no one is right but themselves. So, I say build it the way you want and if it aint right ,you will find out and redo the wrong. Must have thick skin when [TALKING] on a computer, for neither can SHOW how their way is correct. Just my take/.02/ worth. Everyone learn from this web site to build a better hotrod without any hurt feelings or animosity. .
This is a picture of what I think Roadmonster is trying to explain. The shocks and mounting brackets have much more space when using a wider spring. The only reason I can see to use a 26" spring is the cost ($30-$40 cheaper) and the fact that the radius rod axle brackets are easier to install because they are 90 degrees to the axle.
In the 3rd pic, what is the "T" shaped appendage coming forward to the axle, from the spring plate?
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