non-suicide frame plans?

[GizmoJoe]

Hi folks.
After some life-complications (that are still complicated) I am "back" and ready to start trying to put together a T.

I have (3) 8' lengths of 3 X 2 X 3/16" tubing, a model A front axle, an S10 rear end and a bunch of roadster parts.

I'm not 100% sure of engine choice yet but a 4-banger will provide the power for this one (I have a flathead for an A truck which is the next project... someday).

I have Youngster's plans (thanks Ron) and a couple of others too.
Here's my issue (ok.. current one): I can't run a suicide front end (not legal here. not much is :sad: ) and the plans I have are all geared to them.

I'm not looking for a super low ride (good thing 'cause dropped axle.. not legal) and money is about nil so fancy stuff isn't gonna happen.

Any "standard" front end pans out there?

Any help with frame/front end plans would be appreciated.
Thanks in advance.

 

[Youngster]

Welcome back Giz. Building a low car with a stock axle is difficult but certainly possible. I think we could come up with somethin fer ya. Sounds like they are trying to legislate you out of existance. Fight back my friend. Others will join and support ya.

Ron

 

[GizmoJoe]

Thanks Youngster!
I'm not caring about it being low. The roads here are bad.. at best. Lots of frost heave.
Yes, they had planned on bringing in new legislation this year but moved it back a year for more "research".
No lowering or raising (lots of 4X4 owners freakin' out) or any structural changes without the provincial d.o.t. engineer's ok.
I'm ALL for safety but this dude doesn't think straight axles are strong!
Sheesh! I guess all the old cars must have broken in two at the axle! NOT!
I just drug home the tubing now.
As soon as I have anything worth taking pictures of.. I'll post them. For now it's just pieces of steel and stuff.
I'll post a pic of my junkyard English Wheel and a few other things this weekend.
ANY direction will be appreciated.
I'm not new to cars but new to Ts and scratch building.
I'm at the very beginning of the process so it's easy to change.. everything!
Giz

 

[putz]

Google Image Result for http://www.beardmorebros.co.uk/Images/Robins_32/17_front_suspension.jpg
this is on a 32 but looks really cool.front of frame looks close to a bucket.

 

[Ted Brown]

They say...I'm ALL for safety but this dude doesn't think straight axles are strong!
Well ain't it funny as everything that come into that Country by truck, is riding on a straight axle, naaaaa they an't strong. what is wrong with people... the Gov. just messin with your rights...

 

[GizmoJoe]

Ted, you are right on.
The gov is gone wacky here. New inspection rules this year. The mechanic inspecting the car doesn't have to check ANY lights except running lights (which are mandatory). The gas tank and lines can have a hole in them and pass as long as there is no dripping. And there's more. I know this for a fact as one car-bud of mine does inspections. He's shakin his head.
In an real twist, one of the local "rebels" (amazing mechanic/bodyman/customizer/fabber) is looking into getting his inspection license so he can change things from the inside.

Thanks for that, Putz. I've always chuckled at your screen-name... a friend of mine calls me that when she thinks I'm being too "guy-ish", which is appropriate, considering it's meaning.
With fenders, that wouldn't be too bad. I could even bend up some tin to cover it up a bit.
But I'm really looking to use a straight axle (I think it will hold up, contrary to the engineer ).
Maybe I'll have to step the frame a bit.

I'm shooting for a car that I can get in and drive as far as I want. While looks are certainly important, reliability is major.

I'm going to buy some 2x4 studs today and start to mock it up out of wood, after I pull the rear end out of the S10.

 

[GizmoJoe]

Rained hard today so no outside work or gathering parts. :sad:
I don't have my own garage (I use my brother's place) so weather is always an issue.
It's supposed to be a nasty week for rain so I'm not sure how much will get done this week :lol: , other than planning (which is always good).

I did put some paint on my built-from-junk English wheel and helped a buddy dial-in the caster/camber on a 49 Merc he's been building for a customer. :dummy:

I've pretty well come to the conclusion that I'll mount the spring cross-member as high in the frame as possible, remove leaves as is reasonable for a 4-banger engine and see where she sets.
If that doesn't cut it I'll have to step the frame.

I'll start a build thread once I get a few things together and leave this one to fade away.

Thanks for your input so far, folks!

 

[flatheadgary]

sorry that i am a little late to the party but, i had some ideas for you. if you step the frame at the firewall and use the 2x3x3/16 tubing as a cross member, then use a stock model A or '32 ford i beam axle, then put on some 135 or 145 x 15 radial tires, it should be low enough to get in and high enough not to hit anything. also the axle would be stock so how could they gripe about that? as far as fenders go, i always thought a t bucket with stock t fenders and running boards looks pretty nice.

 

[T-Buckeye]

I definitely have to agree with you Gary, I think fenders and running boards on a bucket look great. This one was selling on ebait.
[attachment=2465:1/4/2/6/2044.attach]

 

[GizmoJoe]

Thanks guys!
Any and all input is appreciated. You guys rock.

The front axle isn't in my posession yet but I have one promised to me by a stand-up guy, when he is sure he doesn't need anymore parts for his A.
I'm going to try to "borrow" it for mock-up so I can get on with this.

Because I'm unsure of if I will step or not and what the position/height in frame that the front axle crossmember will be, I have cut and welded up the rear kickup (as per Youngster's plans :rofl: ) and left the rails long (bought a 24' length of 3X2X3/6) so I can cut where needed.

Once I get something worth taking pictures of I will start a build thread.
This isn't going to be a fast project because:
A. I'm not fast. B. I have no money! C. Parts aren't easy to come by. D. I don't have my own garage. I use my brothers when he doesn't need it.
Did I mention I have no money?
However, I have an S15 (small V6, T-5) for donor, welding gear, a bunch of tools, a couple of good buddies who are top notch mechanics/rodders... oh... and you guys!

I've never "built" something from this far down but I've done collision repair, bodywork, mechanical repair, etc etc for years.

T-Buckeye, that is a sweet looking ride. To be honest... that's the syle/look I'm going for. As an old expression goes... almost "to the T". :welcome: I crack me up.

Thanks again guys.

 

[Youngster]

The car in Stans picture is like the '27 kit Total sold. It used '29 fenders and boards, a very nice upgrade in my book.

Ron

 

[GizmoJoe]

I thought they were 29 fenders.. Thanks for the confirmation of that.
Always like the "rounder" fenders.
Maybe because the older I get the rounder I am!

 

[Youngster]

The '28-9 fenders are much easier to find that the '26-7. they are also cheaper when you find them.

Ron

 

[GizmoJoe]

Really? Wow... I'm pleased to read that!

 

[flatheadgary]

gizmo, here is a pic i took at the winternationals back in the late '60's. this is what i was referring to. i do like the '27's too. as i also have a '27 body and all the fenders, flat t type and the rounded ones. i thought i would build a t bucket and use the flat t type fenders on it to resemble this one. i kind of like the flat fenders as it gives a more antique look.i also like the round fenders on '27's. decisions, decisions.

 

[GizmoJoe]

Thanks for that pic.
Great stance!

It isn't that I don't LIKE the flat fenders.. I just like the rounder ones more :lol:

I have a "set" of flats. But Like I keep telling people.. there isn't much old tin here. Too much rust because of the salt air.
Most people would look at the tin around here and shake their heads.

I see the guys from the mid-states and mid-provinces type about rust and I have to laugh.
That's not rust. THIS is rust! (said in my best/worst Croc. Dundee voice)

I have pretty well settled on the look of the blue Total in previously posted.
I mean.. If I can dream.. might as well enjoy it!

 

[alteredpilot]

i for one am not a big fan of cars with kick ups at the firewall....

however,
what you can do is put a short kick up directly behind the front crossmember (hidden by front wheels. big plus!). you can use a flat model A style crossmember and a pretty flat spring with reversed eyes. that will get it down in the weeds.

 

[alteredpilot]

i for one am not a big fan of cars with kick ups at the firewall....

however,
what you can do is put a short kick up directly behind the front crossmember (hidden by front wheels. big plus!). you can use a flat model A style crossmember and a pretty flat spring with reversed eyes. that will get it down in the weeds.

 

[GizmoJoe]

Now you know alteredpilot... I wondered about that and drew it out on paper too.
Just a "bump" in the frame where the crossmember sits... raising it a bit.
Any thoughts fellas? Steering issues this way?

I expected to have to use the A crossmember to match the springs and adjust the number of leaves anyway.

Keep the great thoughts and ideas coming folks.
You are helping me work toward a dream.

 

[T-Buckeye]

:sad:I do feel your pain Gizmo...the pic I showed you is the style I want to build also. Of course, the front end is my concern at the moment. Right now I am sitting between doing an A front end or a spring over setup.