Panhard bar diff mount

[fletcherson]

I had thought of that. Again, not real familiar with them, but have been doing some research. There is plenty of room for one, and the concept makes sence, I just wonder how much difference there would actually be between a panhard verses watts. I am not sure how much suspension travel there will be, in reality. I suppose it will be evident once I remove the springs and cycle the suspension, I know the rear will travel more than the front, so I may just leave the front alone and see how it works out. I can add a dead perch later without many changes. It is not a cross steer, so in theory, it should be ok. I want to soften up the rear for ride quality, so it's more of a concern to me for now. I am most concerned about shackle rock, and do not want a unstable handling car. Just getting to the point where this is coming up on the schedule, so to peak. I just about have all of the controls worked out, as well as the brakes, so I need to get a mental plan together to keep the momentum going. In contrast to some guys who are good at planning and pre design, I am working it out manually, I know what I want it to be, but the details will work themselves out in the process, allows freedom, but creates room for pause... After years of building and fixing stuff, I am being rebellious, no more blue prints, schematics, shop drawings, directions, etc.... Stay tuned for the conclusion.

 

[2old2fast]

You might be able to use a wishbone locater [ see ex-junks pics] , there's another locater that one of the guy's used , it works somewhat like a watts link, but different , I 'll try & find it ..
dave

 

[2old2fast]

Under projec's plans updates , find mr.Tbuckets build thread , on the second page you'll find the locater I was thinking of , made by colorado street rods , IIRC take a look
dave
Sorry -streetrod manufactuing , colorado springs.

 

[fletcherson]

Under projec's plans updates , find mr.Tbuckets build thread , on the second page you'll find the locater I was thinking of , made by colorado street rods , IIRC take a look
dave
Sorry -streetrod manufactuing , colorado springs.

Cool idea, I remember seeing that before on his thread. Wonder if he finished? Anyways, I sent an email to the company to see if they have one to fit my rear, or a blank... I like it mounting up front, as long as my lift bars clear, they should. Anyone you know of running a sway bar on a t with transverse spring? Anyone feel the need to add one? Thoughts?

 

[fletcherson]

Ok, after some thought and research, I think the watts link is the better choice for my application. I found a kit on s.w. that is a weld on kit with heim joints, and a basic pivot type bell crank that I think will adapt nicely to a bracket that bolts to the carrier studs that I can make or have cut by Ron. Now on to the sway bar issue. I think the pervious builder installed the rear shocks with coil overs on a 45* angle in addition to the tranvers spring to attempt to control roll. I hate it, and those are going to be removed and replaced with shorter shocks because I need to relocate the upper shock mounts from the top of the frame to the side because I need the room on top for a roll bar that I want to fab, I want something behind me besides fiberglass and an aluminum fuel tank, lol. I have looked at several sway bar kits, most are extremely too stout for my application, but I like the adjustable link idea, and may copy the currie design a bit, as far as fabbing a rotating tube with arms to the links. I just need to study a little and decide where to mount the links on the diff. It has lift bars, so the easy thing to do would be to attach the links to them. I just don't know how effective it would be as they are about midway on each axle tube, so leverage isnt exactly on my side. My f450 roll back has a rear sway bar and it is inboard of the frame rails, so it must work ok, and I will have nowhere near as much roll to control in my T as that thing does. Again, the curse of chrome prevents common sence methods... Anyone have any wisdom regarding sway bars and transverse springs? Anyone know of any sway bar kits that are more T bucket friendly as far as size, etc? I don't need a rock crawler sized bar under it, lol!

 

[2old2fast]

I honestly don't know that I've ever seen a sway bar on a T , i.e. ; I don't think anyone's found a need for one ??
dave
To add to this , if you're running hairpin style frt RR & the same style on the rear , the frt. & rear axle are essentially acting as sway bars .....think about it ...

 

[fletcherson]

I honestly don't know that I've ever seen a sway bar on a T , i.e. ; I don't think anyone's found a need for one ??
dave
To add to this , if you're running hairpin style frt RR & the same style on the rear , the frt. & rear axle are essentially acting as sway bars .....think about it .. They are radius rods with heim joints, not hair pins, but I see your point. They are independent from each other and can move seperate, as opposed to a sway bar that is tied to both sides and transfers the force to the opposite side... I honestly don't know of the spring is enough to offset the roll from cornering. I want to soften them up so it actually fumctions as a spring. I can't see where anything would prevent body roll as is. The light weight and low center of gravity helps. I just don't want to have to take it art and weld and change stuff when it's done. I have other projects to do... The time for mods is now, while its apart and in the shop. I have seen some posts about body roll, especially with soft springs. I want to try to get it to ride decent, but handle.

 

[2old2fast]

Here's the easiest description I can come up with ...if you unhook 1 radius rod from the frame , can you physically raise or lower the loose end w/o moving the frame ?? If not , then the axle is acting as a sway bar ...
dave

 

[fletcherson]

Actually, I spent some time with it today, and the lift bars act as a sway bar. I had overlooked them when cycling the suspension mentally. There is no way that thing can have body roll. I was over critical of the shackles. That watts link will workout well, I am anxious to get it and make it fit. I also figured out how to make one for the front that will be virtually invisible from the top view, so I think I have the suspension worked out. Now to build it. I made some serious progress on the body while waiting on parts to come in. I have all of the plywood fit in the floor, fire wall, bell housing bump, etc... I also have most of the steel cut to reinforce the sides of the cab, fore and aft of the doors, and the cowl cage. It will allow me to mount the windshield and steering column solidly as well as the seat and seat belts and make the car safer. It will also make it very solid so I can cut both doors out and make them function. I am tieing the braces to the frame and glassing everything together. The body mount bolts will go through them so it will all be tied solid to the frame. I plan on taking some more pics with a clean lense, and posting to the build thread I have neglected. I apreciate the advise and comments you guys have provided, it helped me think it through any get off my rear... I also figured out a trick place for my hi, lo dimmer switch, I found a very small momentary switch with a curved washer so it will work in my shifter. I am using a shifter arm from a old vette because it is s shaped and affords much needed leg room, it has a lever that engaged a reverse lockout that I won't use, so I am making a stainless sleeve to replace it and there is just enough room to install the switch. I will have the line lock on the knob, and the dimmer on the rod, just under and behind it. The tube is also hollow, so the wires will be hidden. Should be pretty slick and ergonomic.

 

[2old2fast]

Keep in mind that T's thru ,I think '25 , only had a passenger side door , you can't step past the steering column on the drivers side..
dave

 

[fletcherson]

Keep in mind that T's thru ,I think '25 , only had a passenger side door , you can't step past the steering column on the drivers side..
dave

Yea, I thought about just cutting the passenger door, but with the shifter, it will be no fun to slide across. I will have to really look at it, but I think it will workout with the tilt column. It folds up right to the windshield. I am not as flexible as I used to be. All the years of climbing and carrying, etc have caught up, not to mention the spine fusion... Have to have a door for my wife, who will never actually ride in it, but likes the thought... She is petite, and climbing in won't do. She won't ride with me on the bike or any of my ragtops because her hair.... But she wants to keep her options open, just in case, lol. If that's the worse, I can handle it. I will have to do some digging before cutting the doors, I want them to be solid and work right, not rattle, etc. I have hung hundreds of doors, I once had a job as a commercial finish carpenter for a company that built schools, post offices, prisons, etc, I was very particular about them being perfect. Then they beat the hell out of them... I think I will mold a flange in as a stop so I can install a seal. That should keep them quiet, but I want to make sure how I want it before I start glassing. I hope my brake stuff shows up this week so I can get the machine work done to the wheels, I want to also have them shot peened so I can restore them. I will likely clear coat them to hopefully minimize future maintenance (magnesium).

 

[mountainman]

Have to have a door for my wife, who will never actually ride in it, but likes the thought... She is petite, and climbing in won't do. She won't ride with me on the bike or any of my ragtops because her hair.... But she wants to keep her options open, just in case, lol.

I think I'm married to her sister. We may be in-laws.

 

[2old2fast]

Get her a bombers hat that'll take care of the hair ! LOL
dave

 

[fletcherson]

Get her a bombers hat that'll take care of the hair ! LOL
dave

Funny thing, when we started seeing each other, she loved riding with me...I guess the thrill is gone.

 

[fluidfloyd]

Here's the easiest description I can come up with ...if you unhook 1 radius rod from the frame , can you physically raise or lower the loose end w/o moving the frame ?? If not , then the axle is acting as a sway bar ...
dave

dave...You are exactly right. If either the front axle or the rear end housing has bolt on non pivoting control arms, radius rod, ladder bars or un-parallel four bar suspension then they are all in fact anti roll bars. The axle or rear hosing is the torsion or anti roll bar and the radius rods etc are the anti roll arms. Maybe if I get some free time I'll address this in more detail post. Lot's going on here and it needs to be discussed Thanks for pointing this fact out.

George

 

[fletcherson]

dave...You are exactly right. If either the front axle or the rear end housing has bolt on non pivoting control arms, radius rod, ladder bars or un-parallel four bar suspension then they are all in fact anti roll bars. The axle or rear hosing is the torsion or anti roll bar and the radius rods etc are the anti roll arms. Maybe if I get some free time I'll address this in more detail post. Lot's going on here and it needs to be discussed Thanks for pointing this fact out.

George

I have read many or your posts in the archives, you have a lot of wisdom to offer. The thing that threw me on this is all of the suspension links have heim joints, I could see that the radial rods would stabilize the front, but I wasn't looking at it when I was thinking about the rear, and didn't consider the lift bars. I also have limited experience with tranversed springs, I am still trying to figure out what prompted whoever built this thing to install the coil over shocks in addition to the tranvers spring.... I am probably over thinking it. I am going to replace them with shorter shocks with no springs and rely on the transfers spring to suspend the chassis. I've looked everything over, and it seems that the springs, shackles, etc are installed correct with the correct angle, and are preloaded. But those overload spring over shocks have me puzzled... The car was built by a reputable speed shop back in the day, Most of the car is top notch as far as components, workmanship, etc... Just dated to the late 70's. I now wish that I would have driven the car more before starting on it. It was already partially disassembled with no brakes, so I tempted fate by running up and down a back road, then trailered it home. I never really got a feel for how it handled or rode. live and learn...

 

[Zandoz]

A lot of things touched on in this thread that grab my attention........

I've never seen a sway bar on a T-bucket either. My whole rear suspension will be unusual for a T...a triangulated 4 link from a Fox body Mustang road racer, modified to use axle mounted airbags instead of lower link mounted coils. The suspension came with a lower link mounted sway bar. I have no idea if it will be of any benefit on a T-bucket. I'm going to try it with and without the sway bar, and if there is no noticeable degradation without, I'll be leaving it off. I do not care for the cluttered look with it on.

On the front, I'll be running a 4-bar setup with a very low and parallel to the axle +-24" Panhard bar. I have no idea if there would be any benefit to some form of sway bar...and no clue to how to set one up. I do know that the Welder Series site has DIY lever action sway bar components.

I'll be cutting out a wood reinforced driver side door on mine. I think & hope I have a neat way to do it based on a method RPM wrote up somewhere quite a while back. It uses wood bonded into the body, overlapping the eventual cutout lines. The cuts are made through the fiberglass and wood, leaving perfectly matched gaps between the body and door wooding. I want to add door stops of full length aluminum strips, fastened to the body wood, and overlapping the door gap and part of the door wood. On the door skin wood I want to do some router work...cutting out for lap joints top and bottom...and cutouts along the edges to allow for weather stripping.

Do you have any more info on the momentary switch you plan on using for the headlight dimmer? Doesn't it have to be pretty robust to handle the load? I have a different way to use a momentary switch for my dimmer. My steering wheel has has horn buttons on the spokes, and just a nonfunctional aluminum center cap. If I can mount a momentary switch for the dimmer coming through the center cap, the steering column already has dimmer switch provisions in the harness connector.

Tilt steering wheels are a pet peeve of mine. Generally the tilt takes away from the space between the wheel and the seat, instead of opening up the space. As the wheel tilts, the arc that the bottom of the wheel travels take it closer to the seat, not away from it. Unless the wheel tilts up past being horizontal, you will lose space. Tilting down can give space between the wheel and seat back, but you loose space between the wheel and seat bottom...usually resulting in more contortion, not less. If you are using an aftermarket steering column, the tilting mechanism adds 3-4" to the length of the column, again taking away space...unless you can move the column to compensate. The simplest solution I've seen is a quick release hub, allowing the steering wheel to be completely removed. This works even better if your wheel has more dish.

A bit of a near totally irrelevant side note....Around 2 years ago I bought a '95 Cougar used for the dealer showroom brochure photo shoot, based on the mistaken advice that there was an easy way to adapt a quick release hub to make the car useable for me...the factory tilt just makes things worse for me. Now after 2 years of mods trying to get more room between the steering wheel and seat, I've only been able to unsafely drive the car twice. At this point the interior is FUBAR to the point it's uncomfortable to unsafe for normal folk to drive, and it looks it. Hopefully someday soon I'll get over being disgusted with it, and foot the bill to have all the mods undone so it's sellable.


My wife would love to be able to ride with me, but it's not destined to be. We're both big folk, and there is no way both of us will fit in that tiny bucket. As is, when I drive it, my only passenger is likely to be my dalmation. Every few weeks or so my wife says something along the lines of me needing to hurry up and get this thing done, because Sassy wants a ride.

If I were starting over with what I know now I'd go for one of RPM's widened and stretched bodies. I'm afraid to ask him what one would cost, because it probably be too tempting to throw away a couple grand in stuff I already have.

 

[Indycars]

Your motivation to make something work for you puts me to shame, keep up
the great work. I've easily thrown away 2 ground on my TBucket in the years
I've had it. Don't hesitate to do the same for yourself if needed, the price is
well worth the money in grins!!!

I recently threw away $100 on a SS firewall.....I cut out the mirror image of
what I needed, just backwards of what I needed. I didn't even flinch upon
ordering another 27x20 inch mirrored SS firewall. It's just too important
to me to have my car running with projects done for the summer cruise.

 

[Zandoz]

Your motivation to make something work for you puts me to shame, keep up
the great work. I've easily thrown away 2 ground on my TBucket in the years
I've had it. Don't hesitate to do the same for yourself if needed, the price is
well worth the money in grins!!!

I recently threw away $100 on a SS firewall.....I cut out the mirror image of
what I needed, just backwards of what I needed. I didn't even flinch upon
ordering another 27x20 inch mirrored SS firewall. It's just too important
to me to have my car running with projects done for the summer cruise.

Unfortunately I do not have the financial ability to toss aside a couple grand...I have a serious guilt complex over what I've already spent.

I think I would have tracked down someone who could polish the other side of the first firewall...that or take a shot at one of those DIY turned finishes. I had been planning on trying to do a painted diamond plate aluminum firewall, but that's likely to be a casualty of my simplification program.

 

[fletcherson]

A lot of things touched on in this thread that grab my attention........

I've never seen a sway bar on a T-bucket either. My whole rear suspension will be unusual for a T...a triangulated 4 link from a Fox body Mustang road racer, modified to use axle mounted airbags instead of lower link mounted coils. The suspension came with a lower link mounted sway bar. I have no idea if it will be of any benefit on a T-bucket. I'm going to try it with and without the sway bar, and if there is no noticeable degradation without, I'll be leaving it off. I do not care for the cluttered look with it on.

On the front, I'll be running a 4-bar setup with a very low and parallel to the axle +-24" Panhard bar. I have no idea if there would be any benefit to some form of sway bar...and no clue to how to set one up. I do know that the Welder Series site has DIY lever action sway bar components.

I'll be cutting out a wood reinforced driver side door on mine. I think & hope I have a neat way to do it based on a method RPM wrote up somewhere quite a while back. It uses wood bonded into the body, overlapping the eventual cutout lines. The cuts are made through the fiberglass and wood, leaving perfectly matched gaps between the body and door wooding. I want to add door stops of full length aluminum strips, fastened to the body wood, and overlapping the door gap and part of the door wood. On the door skin wood I want to do some router work...cutting out for lap joints top and bottom...and cutouts along the edges to allow for weather stripping.

Do you have any more info on the momentary switch you plan on using for the headlight dimmer? Doesn't it have to be pretty robust to handle the load? I have a different way to use a momentary switch for my dimmer. My steering wheel has has horn buttons on the spokes, and just a nonfunctional aluminum center cap. If I can mount a momentary switch for the dimmer coming through the center cap, the steering column already has dimmer switch provisions in the harness connector.

Tilt steering wheels are a pet peeve of mine. Generally the tilt takes away from the space between the wheel and the seat, instead of opening up the space. As the wheel tilts, the arc that the bottom of the wheel travels take it closer to the seat, not away from it. Unless the wheel tilts up past being horizontal, you will lose space. Tilting down can give space between the wheel and seat back, but you loose space between the wheel and seat bottom...usually resulting in more contortion, not less. If you are using an aftermarket steering column, the tilting mechanism adds 3-4" to the length of the column, again taking away space...unless you can move the column to compensate. The simplest solution I've seen is a quick release hub, allowing the steering wheel to be completely removed. This works even better if your wheel has more dish.

A bit of a near totally irrelevant side note....Around 2 years ago I bought a '95 Cougar used for the dealer showroom brochure photo shoot, based on the mistaken advice that there was an easy way to adapt a quick release hub to make the car useable for me...the factory tilt just makes things worse for me. Now after 2 years of mods trying to get more room between the steering wheel and seat, I've only been able to unsafely drive the car twice. At this point the interior is FUBAR to the point it's uncomfortable to unsafe for normal folk to drive, and it looks it. Hopefully someday soon I'll get over being disgusted with it, and foot the bill to have all the mods undone so it's sellable.
View attachment 11862

My wife would love to be able to ride with me, but it's not destined to be. We're both big folk, and there is no way both of us will fit in that tiny bucket. As is, when I drive it, my only passenger is likely to be my dalmation. Every few weeks or so my wife says something along the lines of me needing to hurry up and get this thing done, because Sassy wants a ride.

If I were starting over with what I know now I'd go for one of RPM's widened and stretched bodies. I'm afraid to ask him what one would cost, because it probably be too tempting to throw away a couple grand in stuff I already have.

Bill, The SPST momentary switch was found on eBay and is intended to use in motorcycle handlebars as a starter button, it looks like a stove bolt, very small, low profile, and SS. It is not intended for any significant amperage, it is designed pull a relay. I am using a SPST latching relay to toggle the hi/lo function. It's a VW design that was used on the Beatles, etc... It must be a latching relay. I could only find one that was rated for 20 amps that was within a reasonable price range, and found it at rock auto as a sunroof control relay. If I end up with a amp draw close to or exceeding that, I will just use it to trigger a higher rated relay.
As far as the tilt column issue you described, I can't visualize that issue, I shortened it taking into account the added length of the tilt mechanism and it works great. It telescopes 3" also, and that helps make a lot of room. When collapsed, and tilted up, the steering wheel is almost horizontal and almost against the glass. Pull it down and extend it right to the sweet spot. It allows room for my leg to move and work the clutch, and is comfortable to me. But that wasn't a coincident, I have many hours, blood, sweat, and swearing, no tears...but glad I did it. I don't think I could have made the car work for me without it. A stationary column with a removable wheel would make it some better to enter, but I really like being able to raise the wheel a little when I get busy shifting, then pull it down and back to kick back and cruise. At least it feels good in the garage, lol.
You won't need a sway bar on the front with 4 bar, not sure on the rear, just run it through its paces and see if you can visualize any body roll.