pinion and shock mounting

[one finger john]

Jeff, After re-looking I discovered that that "cutout" that I thought I saw was actually a worn area on the bottom of the pick up bed. there appears to be no cut out at all.
But I would make it a roller before putting in stone.

John

 

[Jeff]

I don't think the floor is crooked but will have to crawl under to check now that you brought it up. It might be. I just noticed that the front looked down too low and put a 3/4 inch block under it and it looked better. Oh on the steering shaft center line. I am around 3 1/4 but the plate that holds the tube has the same center line so it shouldn't be a problem I wouldn't think? I spent a bit moving the rear tire around and do agree that the rear needs to go back but am having a hard time deciding how far. I am not so sure that about 2 to 2 1/2 inches might not be about right. I don't know what cut line john was mentioning. Is it inside the body for shock mounts to clear? The whole reason for trying to figure how much up travel I need in the 4 link is it is going to have to be lowered or the bars have to go back to the first hole I had them in. Right now there is no room for them to go up without hitting the body? I am leanig toward adding 1 1/2 square tube to lower the mounts rather than raise the frame with the shock mounts. I will have to see what 1 1/2 inches does to the amount of up travel I can get at the rear. I don't think it will give me 2 1/2 inches but it might iwhen I move it back. There is too many factors I am trying to get worked out all at one time. Some times is seems overwhelming. I know I will get it with the help of guys like you all but wish I knew a consultant next door to come take a look. I was hoping to get it all tacked in place but didn't hit a single part in three days. I did find a photo of about where I want to end up, but don't have a good side veiw. I anyone knows who's photo this is let me know.

Thank You,
Jeff

 

[Jeff]

Here is a photo as it sits with a tire in place at current ride height on the rear but ride height will have to be raised to allow for 4 link movement. Right now I have 3.50 degree rake in the frame at ride height. My spring perch is 1 degree apposite that direction. The perch is on at near 5 degree I would say. So the rear needs to come up anyway, I would think? In order to get near 4.50 degree rake in the frame. If that is true then the rear is probably not that far out in it's current location. That aluminum channel is o degree. My garage floor slopes off like 5 inches in the span of the car. Makes it a bit difficult some times. Thanks, Jeff

 

[Jeff]

Here is another photo for comparison. I can't get my car this low due to my front axle only having 3 inch drop.

 

[EX JUNK]

Jeff, have you given any consideration to mounting your rear 4 BAR mount on the inside of the frame rail rather than where you now have it mounted? That way you can raise your mounting point to lower the rear without interfering with the body. The picture below is how I mounted my 4 LINK so you'll see what I'm talking about.



You also said that you can't get the front any lower because you only have a 3" dropped axle. That can easily be corrected by making a taller front spring perch.

Jim

 

[2old2fast]

The reason I wanted a pic from the rear is to determine the interference betwwen the frame /body/4-link... appears you've painted yourself into a corner w/those combo 4-link /shock mounts... most of us have mounted the locating bars inboard of the shock mounts , either inside or outside the frame...like junk said , you can fab a different spring perch to lower the frt.or you can re-arch the spring or use a reversed eye spring... don't get to hung up on using what you have , I've got "parts that didn't work laying around...
dave

 

[Jeff]

Jim I hadn't though of inboard not sure it's what I want but is a great suggestion to solve the issue. I would like to keep my spring perch as is though unless I can't get a workable solution. It is stainless and is solid welded complete (not by me). It would make a pretty big mess taking it off I think. I don't mind the high look as in the first example I posted. Just don't like the rear to be in the clouds or on the ground. Kind of in between the two. Here is some pics of the bars from the side and the rear I could probably cut the body out to the inside of the radius to make clearance. Maybe go down one hole on the shock mount. Anyway This is definitely the bump stop position as it is. So a good measurement is in order no mater what unless I opt to cut the body and I am not sure that's the thing to do. I also included a bed to frame shot no more room to move hear. Let me know what you think Dave. let me know what you think.

 

[2old2fast]

Like I said , if you move the rear bar mounts inboard , [MOL parallel to the frame] then you'd be able to trim the body a bit to afford clearence.. but that screws up your coilover mount .... easiest way out would be seperate coilover/ 4-link mounts [may be the only way.]... I've seen those combo mounts , but I think they're intended for a wider chassis...
dave

 

[Jeff]

Do you think it's possible to keep the lower outer 4 link bar and inboard the upper bar as in a triangulated type setup? I know that I may not be able to use the upper bar and may have to find a new one. Just a thought. I really do like the angle formed by the lower bar and the upper is pretty hidden anyway. Just a thought. I ran across a site that custom made stainless link bars but can't find it now. I hate it when that happens.

Thanks, Jeff

 

[EX JUNK]

Jeff, what you have is a 4 BAR not a 4 LINK. In a 4 LINK suspension there are four "adjustable" bars (2 per side) mounted between the rear axle housing and adjustable forward mounting on the frame. With a 4 LINK the instant center is adjustable front to back and up and down. The adjustments on a 4 LINK can be quickly and easily made for how you want the car to "hook up" under drag race conditions. Below is a 4 LINK suspension.



In a 4 BAR the bars are parallel. There is no instant center and no torque is transferred as in a 4 LINK and is perfect for front end suspensions. Below is a 4 Bar suspension used on the front axle.



This is NOT to say that a 4 BAR can't be used on the rear but don't call it a 4 LINK as it is an entirely different type of rear suspension.

Jim

 

[Jeff]

Thanks for clearing that up Jim I didn't know the difference and reasoning. Maybe I just need to scrap what I have and start over at this point. I been looking at it some more and would really like to move the rear back about 3 inches anyway. Could use a bit more room between the body and pinion. Are those 7 degree ends on your links? I Have all kinds of ends at this point. straight and 7 degree. I just need the link material I guess. I might just have them made. Can I still keep the angle out on the lower link like in a triangulated set up or is that just for the bar set up? I found 27 inch bars that could probably be cut down the couple inches or maybe they could be made into links? HMMMMM

 

[EX JUNK]

Thanks for clearing that up Jim I didn't know the difference and reasoning. Maybe I just need to scrap what I have and start over at this point. I been looking at it some more and would really like to move the rear back about 3 inches anyway. Could use a bit more room between the body and pinion. Are those 7 degree ends on your links? I Have all kinds of ends at this point. straight and 7 degree. I just need the link material I guess. I might just have them made. Can I still keep the angle out on the lower link like in a triangulated set up or is that just for the bar set up? I found 27 inch bars that could probably be cut down the couple inches or maybe they could be made into links? HMMMMM

All my rod ends, front and rear are straight, Jeff. I angled the mounts where needed.

Jim

 

[Jeff]

I think I am going to stick with the 4 bar set up. I only have around another inch or so to spare to keep my oil pan in the 3 inch or above scrub line. Right now it's at 3 3/4 -4 inches. I am gong to move the rear back 2 -3 inches though but am wanting to use longer bars to do so. I would like to have room for cowl-tail lamps if doable. After sitting in the tub for a bit, I would like to lower the rear an inch. I probably can go down on the shock mount to do so. I am thinking I can put the top bar inboard? Do you see any problems with that? Right now wheel base is at 98 inches 3 inches would take it into 100 - 101 range.

 

[Jeff]

Here is a rough sketch of what I have in mind at the moment. Do you see any binding issues in this setup? I know it's not ideal but it is just a thought that comes to mind.

thank you,
Jeff

 

[2old2fast]

I imagine that would work.....just seems to me that you're complicating the situation... dave​

 

[Zandoz]

A potential simple solution that would cost nothing to try....

Move one of the upper radius rods to the inboard side of the forward bracket...and to the inboard side of the rear bracket, instead of between the two sides of the bracket. Leave the lower rod where it is. If all the clearances are good, all you have to do to finish off this configuration is get crush prevention spacers to put between the two sides of the brackets, just as the forward brackets are configured.

 

[RESINATOR]

Same setup we have used many times. The bottom bars are similar to yours (5 degree ends at housing and straight at the frame because this frame is tapered) and we shaved off the upper 4 bar mounting tabs on the combo coil/4 bar brackets. This uses triangulated upper bars instead of a Panhard bar.

 

[Jeff]

Thanks dave bill. I just want to keep that lower bar on the body line if I can. I think it looks good there between the v formed by the bones and the lower bar. I thought about putting one bar to the inside but realized that with 7 degree ends on the bars and a tapered frame that the angle would change from one to the other and could cause binding. If the bar ends were straight would probably work. Good to see the pic Jerry. I don't think I can get ever thing lined up to triangulate the inboard bars and keep from binding ups. (This is my first build second one is in the driveway stole the rear for this one) My I ask what length the lowers are aprox? realy looks good.
Thanks Jeff

 

[Jeff]

Well I got the rear brackets moved back three inches and tacked back on. Which should lower the rear a little over 1/4 inch also with the rake angle but won't do much for the bars with the taper outward on the frame, but might have room now to cut he inside of the body for clearance. just have to see what I have now. Going to try to get the shock mounts fixed today. Then will see what I have when I mock it back up. Thanks all, Jeff

 

[Jeff]

update made .125 shims for the cross member. Could use another .045 but hoping the paint and primer will take that up, or I could sandwich some .02 shim stock in between the shim and cross member and weld the edges. Does anyone know where to get 3/8 x 16 threaded inserts for 1 1/2 tubing or do you have to make them. My frame has them in it but I have no idea where to get them. I need four to mount the cross member with. The ones in my frame are like crush tubes. all the way through been welded at one end and ground off. thanks, jeff